Healer Job Concept: Exorcist

I like the idea but seeing how every thing has to be extremely PC nowadays, I don't think that the "Exorcist" name and theme would fly.

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

I like the idea but seeing how every thing has to be extremely PC nowadays, I don't think that the "Exorcist" name and theme would fly.

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It's not that deep fam. Exorcist is far from an inoffensive term.

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Originally Posted by tesni_g

I think the other big problem with a melee healer is "taking" the melee spot in raids. Having more than 4 melee in a group (2 tanks, 2 melee) for current content is punishing because there's just not that much room in melee range when mechanics are making people spread or dump or whatnot. Having that fifth melee in a group means one of those melee is out of range during some mechanics and has to delicately work with all other melee/tanks for most other mechanics.

If we had a melee healer, that melee healer is not getting a prime melee spot. So either the group comp would have to be 1 melee shy to accommodate a melee healer, or the melee healer is just last priority and no group concern with being in range when mechanics become involved.

I would only consider a melee healer in a preformed group that is caster heavy, and then I would feel compelled to keep an off job healer for pugging.

You could circumvent this by adding yet another ability, a dps nuke at range, but if it is weaker than the melee stuff, it will feel bad to be stuck using, and if it is not weaker than the melee stuff, than it is used in place of it.

But the game is already 30 levels deep in 8-man content that do not support a melee healer. I don't see the game design changing to accommodate one healer when most gameplay development time is given to melee dps. And since I'm getting salty about developer stuff, I might as well add the obligatory "SE spends entire live letters talking about SAM MNK and NIN tweaks while ignoring widespread complaints of all healers, so I can't trust them with a melee healer. They won't do it well."

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I apologize but are you referring to static groups? For a moment I was thinking about how the groups are made up and that the Exorcist would take a green slot and not red but then I remembered Static Prog groups like for Epic of Alexander so I suppose you are right but everything is supposed to be balanced that anyone can prog with anything. The only issue is me trying to Balance the Exorcist to not be so strong that people will always want one in the group and too weak that no one will ever want it.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Not to disagree with healer problems, but, technically speaking, there is no reason to run 2 melee DPS now. You could easily run 2 casters and 1 melee and have plenty of dps to make checks and compete with speed kills. In that comp a melee healer would be easy to add, but, TBH, I halfway don't expect a healer at all next expac, and I kinda don't want it either. SE can't handle 3, I'd hate to see how they'd butcher a 4th.

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While issues are there, I do want more Jobs in the game and more variety with healers since the AST lost half of their buff mechanic due to players only trying to only roll Balance and SCH is kind of struggling to do any of the heavy lifting that AST or WHM can do.

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

I like the idea but seeing how every thing has to be extremely PC nowadays, I don't think that the "Exorcist" name and theme would fly.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

It's not that deep fam. Exorcist is far from an inoffensive term.

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I'm sure its fine... maybe. People will probably more think about Geist the Bloody or the Exorcist film first. Not like I'm trying to shove crosses and bibles down children's(who shouldn't actually be playing FF14 since it is a T rated game) throat

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Originally Posted by FusionFool3

While issues are there, I do want more Jobs in the game and more variety with healers since the AST lost half of their buff mechanic due to players only trying to only roll Balance and SCH is kind of struggling to do any of the heavy lifting that AST or WHM can do.

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I think I'd be a lot more open to a 4th healer if the problems for current healers wasn't "strip them down of everything that made me them fun and unique". If it were just balance issues, that's whatever, you can never achieve perfect balance, so as long as the numbers are close enough, then I can live with it. I'm scared that a 4th healer will either come out and be just as bad as the current 3 "spam 1, MAYBE 2, buttons, then some times someone gets an ouchie so you kiss it better then back to spamming" or they make a healer that actually works in that system,and actually has something to do in downtime that doesnt cause carpal tunnel, but at the expense of the other 3 healers. I would love for SE to prove me wrong and do both, make the current 3 healers amazing and fun to play while also giving us a 4th healer who does the same. But this expac has made me lose all faith that SE know what they're doing with healers. If it weren't for the Savage/ultimate scene and my FC, I'd have unsubbed and found another game to give my attention.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

I think I'd be a lot more open to a 4th healer if the problems for current healers wasn't "strip them down of everything that made me them fun and unique". If it were just balance issues, that's whatever, you can never achieve perfect balance, so as long as the numbers are close enough, then I can live with it. I'm scared that a 4th healer will either come out and be just as bad as the current 3 "spam 1, MAYBE 2, buttons, then some times someone gets an ouchie so you kiss it better then back to spamming" or they make a healer that actually works in that system,and actually has something to do in downtime that doesnt cause carpal tunnel, but at the expense of the other 3 healers. I would love for SE to prove me wrong and do both, make the current 3 healers amazing and fun to play while also giving us a 4th healer who does the same. But this expac has made me lose all faith that SE know what they're doing with healers. If it weren't for the Savage/ultimate scene and my FC, I'd have unsubbed and found another game to give my attention.

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That's unfortunate and kinda right. I used to main SCH back in Stormblood and the Job feels a little alien and weak compared to White Mage and I feel lost whenever I play AST, but that might just be because I'm paying too much attention to drawing cards then DPSing or Healing. I now spend my days either Tanking as a DRK or healing as a WHM

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

I like the idea but seeing how every thing has to be extremely PC nowadays, I don't think that the "Exorcist" name and theme would fly.

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It's a person committed to the act of drawing out a demon that has possessed a body. That in itself doesn't lend heavily towards religion in the case of this game. Besides HW was basically evil worshipers masquerading as holy worshipers, all the while wiping out big harmless sentient dragons. Nevermind that one knight they got that could pass easily for Hannibal Lector.

tl;dr: no one cares, it's all good

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Originally Posted by FusionFool3

That's unfortunate and kinda right. I used to main SCH back in Stormblood and the Job feels a little alien and weak compared to White Mage and I feel lost whenever I play AST, but that might just be because I'm paying too much attention to drawing cards then DPSing or Healing. I now spend my days either Tanking as a DRK or healing as a WHM

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Coming straight from Blasphemous it sounds like you've had a lot of fun coming up with the names and effects for these skills. Wielding axe and powers of accumulated stress and release, or taking on other peopls sin and demons and exorcising them in a torrent of force, or simply chopping them up. Something I'd definitly like to try. Specially if it's melee-focused, but with twists to keep moving in and out.

As you say, SCH feels alien and each last two expansion just made other jobs and games feel more fun by proxy. A new healer would be great, but currently carrying impressions the developers handling of healers is a direction I can't say I endorse. Where they only view offense and indirect support options as embryonic or unnecessary for the few fights they test them in and only see need for more free healing.

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Originally Posted by FusionFool3

I apologize but are you referring to static groups? For a moment I was thinking about how the groups are made up and that the Exorcist would take a green slot and not red but then I remembered Static Prog groups like for Epic of Alexander so I suppose you are right but everything is supposed to be balanced that anyone can prog with anything. The only issue is me trying to Balance the Exorcist to not be so strong that people will always want one in the group and too weak that no one will ever want it.

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Any 8 man content with a melee healer is going to require either 1 less melee or the melee healer will have to content themselves with being out of range for some mechanics. In a static, I would expect my group to adjust and make it work. In a pug, I would not expect that. That's all I was saying, is that in formal content the game pushes us to define subroles into locations for puddles and spreads, and even in optimized groups I can't imagine anyone preferring the healer for prime melee spots over any melee. Melee dps is a popular subrole, as well, and while a party only needs 1 melee dps to satisfy limit break/raid bonuses, that many parties have 2 melee dps because that many players enjoy the class.

Like I said, you could probably design a way around this, but any melee healer needs to fit in 8 player content just as well as 4.

Glancing over the idea, I like it, but, oh god the names. I think some ability names need a major overhaul. While the name Exorcist is "acceptable", I don't think skill names like Sadism, Masochism, Amputate, etc are the best choice. Personally, I would recommend adjusting those. I would also suggest changing their weapon, it would still be "melee" inspired, but I'd still make most of their attacks be distanced.

As for the Undo mechanic, you might just be over thinking it some. Remember, that "Undo" was basically all an Exorcist did in Bravely Second, so that should apply here as well. Undo could be the "raise" spell, or an Excog-like skill, Auto Undo a regen, Undo Trois a trait to add charges. You have to look at what the job needs as basics, then add the flourishes, and then you can apply the name Undo. It'll be a way of incorporating the idea without getting bogged down with too many details.

For example, Undo is the base healing spell, worth 400. But a trait, Undo Trois, could increase its potency in certain conditions. And maybe Bleed is the DoT, and maybe bring back Phlebotomize as the main attack. In a way, you'd wanna design Exorcist similar to SCH, without a second tier single target heal (Cure II/Benefic II) and a unique second tier AoE heal.