OK, I gotta vent. Are people stupid or... Stupid?

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Originally Posted by Delsus

What you are saying is that you are lazy and cannot be bothered to lvl Miner, the people putting the rings up cheaper is prolly people who have miner leveled, then Electrum ore costs 0 gil, raw zircon costs 0 gil, make some zircons from the raw ones and the whole 180k you get is profit, they dont care how much they put the rings up then becuase the mats cost nothing.

Btw how much are NQ zircon rings on Lindblum?

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lol is my answer to the whole comment, not just the question at the end. You sir fail to see what I'm talking about, therefore I have nothing to say to you.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Dude..level a DoL. DoH is not useless, but it is useless in terms of making money if you are buying overpriced mats. The price of electrum ore skyrocketed because of the patch, and *you* are buying that overpriced ore to make a finished product that is going to be severely undercut. Trust me when I say, the demand for ore is generally higher than the demand for finished products. As a result, ore prices will stay relatively stable, while finished products will go under rapid price swings. Why? Ore is needed for not just one accessory, but ALL accessories that use that ore. So you're talking a BUNCH of ore that every goldsmith like you wants so they can make their hq stuff. That means selling ore at a premium price because ppl like you will always buy it.

Now the flip side, you have goldsmiths now flooding the market with their accessories. Ppl dont need accessories nearly as bad as they need ore, so accessories get rampant undercuts. Dont buy ore until the demand subsides, and ore prices return to normal levels. In most cases, as in normal market conditions, buying mats and making finished products is very profitable. When the market inflates, however, its a bad idea. There can never be to much ore on the market, but there can easily be too many accessories.

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Pretty much this. DoL > all when it comes to making money.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Dude..level a DoL. DoH is not useless, but it is useless in terms of making money if you are buying overpriced mats. The price of electrum ore skyrocketed because of the patch, and *you* are buying that overpriced ore to make a finished product that is going to be severely undercut. Trust me when I say, the demand for ore is generally higher than the demand for finished products. As a result, ore prices will stay relatively stable, while finished products will go under rapid price swings. Why? Ore is needed for not just one accessory, but ALL accessories that use that ore. So you're talking a BUNCH of ore that every goldsmith like you wants so they can make their hq stuff. That means selling ore at a premium price because ppl like you will always buy it.

Now the flip side, you have goldsmiths now flooding the market with their accessories. Ppl dont need accessories nearly as bad as they need ore, so accessories get rampant undercuts. Dont buy ore until the demand subsides, and ore prices return to normal levels. In most cases, as in normal market conditions, buying mats and making finished products is very profitable. When the market inflates, however, its a bad idea. There can never be to much ore on the market, but there can easily be too many accessories.

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I see what you're saying and what MIGHT happen in the future, and yet waiting until prices go down makes no sense, because when the prices of the +1 materials go down, so will the prices of the +1 jewelry go down because people will and CAN undercut even more.

And then you guys tell me to level DoL to make any money... Well then if that's the case, then this crafting system is broken and needs to be fixed.

Mine your own mats ... its where you make the money.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Mine your own mats ... its where you make the money.

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But then there's no point in crafting them, because selling them is faster and guaranteed 100% profit. Which goes back to what I was saying; crafting is USELESS. Can you people not read, comprehend, and understand?

*sigh* thread name should be "Ok I gotta vent - Am I stupid or... Stupid".

The people who make money off crafting are generally the people that gather their own mats, except cooking, it comes to the point where everyone has the gear they want and stop buying, then the prices drop like a brick, this happened for GSM a couple of days after the patch, everyone either bought or made their own accessories when the patch came out, therefore demand dropped for accessories. Because demand dropped people weren't buying them therefore the price drops, some profit is better than none.

Then rolling into the equation is the people who have Miner lvl 50, mats cost them a big fat 0 gil, they can therefore undercut as much as they want and its profit, the undercutters are not stupid, they are making money because they have miner lvl 50 (probably) so 180k for them is nice profit for the HQ, selling NQ is also profit.

tl;dr if you buy mats and complain you make no money you are stupid, if you mine mats and make loads of profit you are smarter than the formor.

Get your miner up I'd say.

Mining will save you a ton of money. Also, it puts you in control of material prices.

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Originally Posted by Irzibe

I see what you're saying and what MIGHT happen in the future, and yet waiting until prices go down makes no sense, because when the prices of the +1 materials go down, so will the prices of the +1 jewelry go down because people will and CAN undercut even more.

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It doesn't work this way...I know cuz I watch the market pretty frequently. What generally happens is that when the demand for ore goes down, the price for finished goods goes up. It's not exactly intuitive but its true. A decrease in ore demand means a decrease in product supply. A decrease in product supply means in increase in price and less undercutting. After a while GSM's will stop flooding the market with accessories. Electrum ore will go back to its normal levels, and you'll see a lot less selling. That means you can sell your accessories at a premium to all those people who need them but don't have the skillz to make em. Thats why low level gear sells for such ridiculous prices. The supply is low, low chance of undercuts, and there's always someone too lazy to make it themselves.

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And then you guys tell me to level DoL to make any money... Well then if that's the case, then this crafting system is broken and needs to be fixed.

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It is not broken. You can make lots of money crafting but *only* by selling the right products, and *only* when mat prices are not inflated. Thats how it works in the real world too. If metals all of the sudden skyrocketed in price, everything from cars to gas prices would show decreased profit margins unless they increased the price too. And in a competitive market, there will always be that company that discovered a way to decrease its expenses (increasing its margins) and undercut your product (in ffxiv, the guy that mines all of his ore). You dont need a degree in economics, but you should understand the basic concepts of supply and demand, and how the prices of mats affect your profits. Its basically like running a real business, with gil instead of dollars. You can't just LOLcraft and expect to make money. You gotta do it intelligently.

Ppl say level a DoL because it is the easiest way to increase your profit margins by a stupid amount. If you mined all of your electrum ore +1, you cut out 150k from your production costs. 150k!! Thats insane. You'd have to be crazy not to look at that and go "Im gonna level mining right now!" I can make items practically for free and sell them for 50k+ a pop. Insane!! If you HQ it its even better! Making money requires a lot of work, in the real world and in games with simulated economies. If it was as easy as lolcraft then everyone would be rich.

The class system is a lot more interactive than the OP seems to think.

Yes you do need to farm your own materials. Yes you need to synth it all on your own. Yes you need to meld it with worthwhile stuff too (breaking down your own materia on a DoW/M). Plenty of ways to make gil in this game. Sitting in town buying up mats is not the way to do it.

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Originally Posted by Irzibe

But then there's no point in crafting them, because selling them is faster and guaranteed 100% profit. Which goes back to what I was saying; crafting is USELESS. Can you people not read, comprehend, and understand?

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Crafting is far from useless you obviously have no clue how to make substantial gil. I mine for an hour a day take the 2 million gil I make in mats turn them into items and either sell them or or Materia them and sell the materia off. If you make the correct items then the materia you get will be substantially more profit then you could imagine. Today alone I mined 2 stacks of Iron Ore and a full stack of Cobalt, not including the Stack of Raw Gem Ore and misc +1 mats.

Everything in this game is designed to be done together 1 Job depends on the other if you played it like that then youd have more gil and things to do then you know what to do with.