Remove Divination CD?

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

You're spreading misinformation.

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It's actually you who are doing this, first of all, the difference between astro's raiddps and whm's raiddps is usually higher than merely 400 rdps, you picked one battle where this is the case on most percentages, but if you look at the other current savage raids here are the differences on 75%:

eden prime: 700rdps
voidwalker: 650rdps
leviathan: 500rdps
titan: 400rdps

all bosses combined: 550 rdps

And this is actually one of the better percentage to observe, at lower percentages the difference tends to grow higher.

This is not extremely small, whm basically deals 10% more rdps constantly by just having extremely high personal damage, there is no need for that, astro could definitely use a buff.

Second of all, divination is not the strongest raid-wide buff, technical step has the same cd, but instead of 6% it buffs the damage by 5% and lasts 20 seconds instead of 15 seconds. The buff lasting 15 seconds and giving 6% more damage is actually less damage than buff lasting 20 seconds and giving 5% more damage, one could also make a case for embolden for physical heavy team, though this doesn't benefit the healers and I am not doing that math. And I know you said buffs so trick attack isn't included in that but it's basically the same thing as a buff, just in form of bebuff on enemy and it's the best raidwide damage ability in the game hands down.

Divination is strong, but it's not the best, and it definitely deserves to be stronger.

Divination also stacks with the cards. So while it is 6% on the entire group, there is also a high chance that you'll be using it in conjunction with around 2 or 3 6% or 8% buffs. Which is usually the case, as you should have 3 card buffs rolling alongside the first divination.

Not to mention if you keep on top of your seals, your subsequent Sleeve Draw can be used to pump out 3 minor Arcana buffs on cooldown. Which are 3 8% damage buffs on 3 of your dps.

So best case scenario, on your opener you'll have one 8% buff (a prepull minor Arcana) 3 6% damage buffs on 3 dps, and 6% damage on the group.

Then at 2 mins you'll have another 6% damage plus one 6-8% damage due to draw lining up.
At 3 mins you'll have 3 8% buffs,

At 4 it will be the same as 2 min,

And then at 6 min you'll have Divination + Sleeve up, meaning 6% damage on the group + 8% damage on 3 of you dps, plus another potential 6% or 8% on the 4th dps depending on draw cooldown.

And the whole time you'll have a card drawn every 30 seconds, which is a potential for 3% at worst, and 8% damage at best.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

No. You can completely ignore seals in the opener because statistically you're most likely get the 5%. Even if you get the 4%, it's still worth it over delaying for 6%, because you're stacking and aligning Divination with other raid buffs (and your own cards). Being forced into 4% divination after the opener is extremely unlikely.

By group DPS I'm assuming you're talking about something like 80k. If you're going to call 0.5% "extremely small", then calculate this:

RDPS statistics on Titan: WHM 6.4k, AST 6k
6.4k - 6k = 400. The difference between AST and WHM rdps is extremely small. "Barely 0.5% of the group's dps."

It's easy to downplay the contribution of AST buffs if you compare to the group's dps - a.k.a. comparing to the combined contribution of 8 players.
"Barely 0.5% of the group's dps". Let's just ignore the fact that it translates to 5%+ of the AST's rdps. Let's ignore the fact that it's a loss about the same as (or even bigger than) your DRG using or not using Battle Littany. Or your NIN using or not using Trick Attack. Or your SCH using or not using Chain Stratagem.

Now let's stop comparing it to the combined contribution of 8 players and instead compare it to the AST's dps. The difference between bad Divination/card usage and good Divination/card usage will be over 10% of the AST's contribution.

Divination is the strongest raid-wide buff in the game and can account for over 1% of the group's dps. You're spreading misinformation.

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And you didn't read what I wrote. Try doing that before calling me a liar.

I said that optimizing Divination barely makes a difference. By spamming cards and using Div whenever available, you're already getting to 2/3 of the optimal buff numbers; aligning seals and using the right cards barely adds to the pile.
Oh, and make sure not to clip any of your redraws, because you'll waste a Malefic and it would kinda ruin the point of aligning seals.

Most classes get awful numbers if they don't use their kit correctly, but AST still gets most of its buffs by just puttings cards on the best DPS and using Divination whenever. It's ridiculous.

Besides, if you really, really want to squeeze a bit more damage, then play WHM or SCH. They're still far ahead. Hell, even Chain Stratagem sometimes gets better results in one single button press.
There's no real point in theorycrafting AST right now, because the result will pretty much be "more work for less results than the others". Even in top tier teams.

I would like to feel a more meaningful reward for correctly pulling off the seal minigame.

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Originally Posted by Samsta

It's actually you who are doing this, first of all, the difference between astro's raiddps and whm's raiddps is usually higher than merely 400 rdps, you picked one battle where this is the case on most percentages, but if you look at the other current savage raids here are the differences on 75%:

[...]

And this is actually one of the better percentage to observe, at lower percentages the difference tends to grow higher.

This is not extremely small, whm basically deals 10% more rdps constantly by just having extremely high personal damage, there is no need for that, astro could definitely use a buff.

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I explicitly stated it's from Titan statistics. If it wasn't clear from the tone in my post, I disagree that 0.5% is an extremely small difference and I posted an example of 0.5% which he would agree is not a small difference. The entire point of the post is that "0.5%" is not extremely small and that using cards well vs using cards poorly makes a significant difference.

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Originally Posted by Samsta

Second of all, divination is not the strongest raid-wide buff, technical step has the same cd, but instead of 6% it buffs the damage by 5% and lasts 20 seconds instead of 15 seconds. The buff lasting 15 seconds and giving 6% more damage is actually less damage than buff lasting 20 seconds and giving 5% more damage, one could also make a case for embolden for physical heavy team, though this doesn't benefit the healers and I am not doing that math. And I know you said buffs so trick attack isn't included in that but it's basically the same thing as a buff, just in form of bebuff on enemy and it's the best raidwide damage ability in the game hands down.

Divination is strong, but it's not the best, and it definitely deserves to be stronger.

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Fair enough. I forgot DNC existed. The math isn't as simple as that because it also depends on what you stack it with. But I don't really care to compare because of obvious reasons (you don't compare across roles).

My point is/was that 0.5% is not an extremely small difference, which you seem to agree with.

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Originally Posted by Lodi

And you didn't read what I wrote. Try doing that before calling me a liar.

I said that optimizing Divination barely makes a difference. By spamming cards and using Div whenever available, you're already getting to 2/3 of the optimal buff numbers; aligning seals and using the right cards barely adds to the pile.
Oh, and make sure not to clip any of your redraws, because you'll waste a Malefic and it would kinda ruin the point of aligning seals.

Most classes get awful numbers if they don't use their kit correctly, but AST still gets most of its buffs by just puttings cards on the best DPS and using Divination whenever. It's ridiculous.

Besides, if you really, really want to squeeze a bit more damage, then play WHM or SCH. They're still far ahead. Hell, even Chain Stratagem sometimes gets better results in one single button press.
There's no real point in theorycrafting AST right now, because the result will pretty much be "more work for less results than the others". Even in top tier teams.

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I didn't call you a liar. Maybe you should follow your own advice.

Then: "0.5%" of the group's dps, is "extremely small", barely makes a difference between zombie play and optimal play.
Now: Play WHM, it's still far ahead. Meanwhile, the difference between AST and WHM in Titan parses at 99pct is around "0.5%" the raid's dps.

Do you get the point?

Divination alone contributes ~10% of the AST's rdps. Cards contribute at least 5% on top of that. Use your tools well, they are important.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

I didn't call you a liar. Maybe you should follow your own advice.

Then: "0.5%" of the group's dps, is "extremely small", barely makes a difference between zombie play and optimal play.
Now: Play WHM, it's still far ahead. Meanwhile, the difference between AST and WHM in Titan parses at 99pct is around "0.5%" the raid's dps.

Do you get the point?

Divination alone contributes ~10% of the AST's rdps. Cards contribute at least 5% on top of that. Use your tools well, they are important.

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"You're spreading misinformation" sounds a lot like "You're lying" to me.

And keep in mind that even top AST are lagging behind the others. Why even bother redrawing cards, aligning seals and paying attention to the melee/ranged cards, when a WHM still does better by spamming 1 and 2?

The class is only good if you want to play a healer with low cast times, that's the only good thing it has.
If you so badly need 400 extra dps, just pick WHM. Or join another party.

There's litterally no point in optimising AST right now, because every other healer will do better with twice less effort. Seriously, a WHM/SCH spamming Glare/Broil alone will get more dps than an AST with Malefic, Combust and Earthly Star.

AST is the Ninja of healers right now, it needs serious changes. But because it's a healer, nobody cares.

Divination on a cool down is really just to help you fight RNG.

A better suggestion is to have a minor arcana card outside of battle fill every seal so its always ready for the pull. Nothing else needs changed.

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Originally Posted by Lodi

"You're spreading misinformation" sounds a lot like "You're lying" to me.

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That's on you. Spreading misinformation does not mean lying.

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Originally Posted by Lodi

And keep in mind that even top AST are lagging behind the others. Why even bother redrawing cards, aligning seals and paying attention to the melee/ranged cards, when a WHM still does better by spamming 1 and 2?

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Because cards and divination make up at least 15% of your contribution. If you think AST should be dumbed down to WHM level, then fine - suggest that, but do not say it's not worth using the buffs correctly, because it is.

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Originally Posted by Lodi

The class is only good if you want to play a healer with low cast times, that's the only good thing it has.
If you so badly need 400 extra dps, just pick WHM. Or join another party.

There's litterally no point in optimising AST right now, because every other healer will do better with twice less effort. Seriously, a WHM/SCH spamming Glare/Broil alone will get more dps than an AST with Malefic, Combust and Earthly Star.

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Of course there is. Maybe you don't care to optimize just because you won't beat a WHM, but others will and they will enjoy doing so.

AST dominates healing statistics in every single fight and functions as an enabler, allowing their cohealer to output more dps.
Which is why SCH+AST are on top of Healer Combined Damage at the higher percentiles in every fight with the exception of Eden Prime. If WHM is so far ahead of AST, then how is it possible that AST + SCH can even hope to come close to SCH + WHM?

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Originally Posted by Lodi

The class is only good if you want to play a healer with low cast times, that's the only good thing it has.
There's litterally no point in optimising AST right now, because every other healer will do better with twice less effort. Seriously, a WHM/SCH spamming Glare/Broil alone will get more dps than an AST with Malefic, Combust and Earthly Star.

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At 75th and 95th, AST/SCH comps output more combined dps than WHM/SCH comps in every fight except Eden Prime. Even at 99th, AST/SCH outperforms in Voidwalker. Thinking about healer balance ONLY in terms of rdps is pretty shallow :/