My idea for the WHM kit

LMAO what even is this?

I have so many questions but it's obvious you are stuck on your idea as being...good.

Sorry to "burst your bubble" (as you said) but these are not good ideas for an MMO like FF14. They are actually terrible.

If you want a pure healer WHM go play something else.

Notably, don't play the following Final Fantasys if this is your idea of what a WHM is:

FF3, FF4, FF5 (because lolff5whm is basically unplayable), FF9, FF10, FF12 and (by extension) Bravely Default.

Also, wtf is renaming Fluid Aura to Water I even needed for? A better idea would have been to suggest to delete it all together.

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

LMAO what even is this?

I have so many questions but it's obvious you are stuck on your idea as being...good.

Sorry to "burst your bubble" (as you said) but these are not good ideas for an MMO like FF14. They are actually terrible.

If you want a pure healer WHM go play something else.

Notably, don't play the following Final Fantasys if this is your idea of what a WHM is:

FF3, FF4, FF5 (because lolff5whm is basically unplayable), FF9, FF10, FF12 and (by extension) Bravely Default.

Also, wtf is renaming Fluid Aura to Water I even needed for? A better idea would have been to suggest to delete it all together.

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i'm not stuck on my idea being good im stuck on the idea that WHM should be faitful to his lore and not turn to some dps with some heal skill like u want him to be.
let me remind you white magic isn't about killing its about healing as well his lore confirms it but u just prefer to ignore it all including as well those past FF games including those that you mention in order to make him a dps with some healing skill which exist it called RDM ....enjoy.
your ignorance really is saddening , in case u didn't notice yuna magic was white magic which was mostly healing but probably u also believe summoning is part of white magic or that the black magic nodes are as well part of white magic.

also "wtf is renaming Fluid Aura to Water I " have you been playing ff14? do you not know what your starter class is before becoming white mage?

so yea i'l stick to my idea rather then to blindly agree to yours while your ignoring WHM lore and roots.

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Originally Posted by IttyBitty

If you are at the point where casting your version of re-raise is going to actually do anything (ie they're actually going to die within the next 60 seconds), and you actually have the time to cast it, why would you not spend that time preventing the death in the first place? If they're going to die anyway, I'd rather have control over when they get to get back up (so they don't raise right into the raidwide that follows the mechanic that took them down since few players actually take advantage of res immunity) even if it means they stay on the floor for a little bit longer.

The only augmented raise I'd want to see in this game is one which bypasses weakness.

What WHM actually needs is more things to do with their lilies earlier in the levelling experience, not shunting the reward system for using them even later. WHM gets its "unique" system *so late* compared to practically every other class, whose gauges may be very rudimentary early on but at least actually *exist* before level 50 (usually by level 30).

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re-raise is more of insurance rather also if u do apply raise to someone they still need to accept it,so it doesn't give u that much control since they can still choose to be res right before an aoe strike not to mention saves you the use of using swiftcast and raise to someone else in case there are multiple deaths and not just one.

as for the idea to bypass weakness, it might be a good idea i think i will add that.
more things to do with lily ,i might have an idea about that including with the blood lily il might add that as well.

ops ,didn't notice i double posted

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

re-raise is more of insurance rather also if u do apply raise to someone they still need to accept it,so it doesn't give u that much control since they can still choose to be res right before an aoe strike not to mention saves you the use of using swiftcast and raise to someone else in case there are multiple deaths and not just one.

as for the idea to bypass weakness, it might be a good idea i think i will add that.
more things to do with lily ,i might have an idea about that including with the blood lily il might add that as well.

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Again abilities that require bad things to happen to do something aren't really good, you are never happy you had to cast a raise, neither would you be happy that re-raise you casted earlier procced. I can see it being fun ability if it doesn't give you weakness, it would enable cheese tactics in some fights but still pretty questionable from aforementioned reasons.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

i'm not stuck on my idea being good im stuck on the idea that WHM should be faitful to his lore and not turn to some dps with some heal skill like u want him to be.
let me remind you white magic isn't about killing its about healing as well his lore confirms it but u just prefer to ignore it all including as well those past FF games including those that you mention in order to make him a dps with some healing skill which exist it called RDM ....enjoy.

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Which of the games did I list have White Mages act like a RDM? It's ridiculous you would say this. None of these games give the White Mages direct access to Black Magic unless you yourself choose to do so. Some of them even have Red Mage as a selectable Job and it plays completely differently to that of the White Mage. Why? Because in none of them do the White Mages get access to Black Mage by themselves and usually deal with enemies through their own spells, summons and/or ranged weapons.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

your ignorance really is saddening , in case u didn't notice yuna magic was white magic which was mostly healing but probably u also believe summoning is part of white magic or that the black magic nodes are as well part of white magic.

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This is rich.

Are you sure I'm the ignorant one? Yuna is the White Mage, we can agree on this right? Does she only have white magic? No? Is she also a Summoner? Yes?

You see, the thing is is that all of the games I listed have White Mages that can do more than just heal however you think that a White Mage is defined by the fact that they are a pure healer. You are ignorant to the fact that Final Fantasy rarely ever forces a White Mage to have little to no attack spells or some other means of dealing damage. Garnet, Eiko and Yuna have summons so they are not just healers, so they can do something else but sit there farting around waiting to healing their party. Not to mention that Garnet and, to a lesser extent, Eiko have access to effective ranged weapons (rackets). Rosa deals a censored amount of damage with a Bow and is easily the best, or second-best (Cecil is op), party member because she heals for obscene amounts but also dispatches most enemies with ease.

Many of these games White Mages can handle groups of foes with wind spells or by nuking undead with healing spells. The White Mage "job" in FF12 even gains access to Heavy Armor and Long Swords and is not completely useless in dispatching enemies.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

also "wtf is renaming Fluid Aura to Water I " have you been playing ff14? do you not know what your starter class is before becoming white mage?

so yea i'l stick to my idea rather then to blindly agree to yours while your ignoring WHM lore and roots.

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Labelling it as "Water I" would in itself state that there are other levels to it. But there isn't. Not that your answer even means anything or explains your reasoning.

And I am not ignoring WHM lore or roots. You, however, are ignoring what most White Mages in Final Fantasy history have had access too or could do. Did you notice how I didn't list FF1, FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, FF:4HoL or FFRW? That's because White Mage in those games work, mostly, how you define them. I shouldn't have added FF5 to my original list but its honestly such a garbage job in FF5 that you should never use it. And I don't know about FF11 so I skipped it.

Edit: Forgot FFX-2. lol

I guess if this is "for fun" it's OK, but these don't sound like good changes to make in the actual game. Endure and Reraise/no weakenss are absurdly broken. They'll be used to grant dozens of tank invulns through a raid or just skip stack/avoid mechanics. Changing Cure III would just remove one of WHM's signature spells, I don't see what's wrong with MedicaI/II.

Your layout confuses me, and while I wont poke any holes in a few of what changes you've suggested, I'm not quite sure if it was fully thought out, as a few tweeks seem counter intuitive to one another. Once I get home tonight, I will thoroughly go through this.

One suggestion though is, look at what AST and SCH did get that WHM didn't. That'll help you with a new implementation of their skills.

Okay here is what I think a revised version might look like, I tried to maintain your idea but integrate it with what is already available to us. too much in either direction at the moment and things will become too unfamiliar, and at that point its either the same thing or a different job entirely. I tried to make it that they slowly upgrade to a WHM, as they should.

lvl 1- Stone - while it will be called Stone, mostly everything about it will be Stone II, icon, animation, but the potency will be reduced to 170

lvl 2 - Cure - No changes

lvl 4 - Aero - No changes

lvl 10 - Medica - No changes

lvl 12 - Raise - No changes

lvl 15 - Fluid Aura (Class Quest) - Deals water damage with a potency of 200 to all nearby enemies.
Additional Effect: Restores own HP and the HP of nearby party members
Cure Potency: 200
Recast: 45s
(Fluid Aura can now act like a pre Assize, playing into the whole water is both beneficial and deadly angle.)

lvl 18 - Presence of Mind - No change

lvl 20 - TRAIT: Main and Mend - No change

lvl 26 - Stoneskin - Creates a barrier around self or target party member that absorbs damage equivalent to a heal of 400 potency.
Duration: 15s
Recast: 30s
(Stoneskin can now act like a pre Divine Benison. Stoneskin is semi iconic so this way it has a purpose)

lvl 30 - Cure II (Class Quest) - No change

lvl 30 - Regen (Job Quest) - No change, but Regen is moved so that WHM gets access to their "gimmick" at the same level as the other healers

lvl 32 - TRAIT: Freecure - No change

lvl 35 - TRAIT: Banish Mastery - Upgrades Stone to Banish

lvl 35 - Banish (Job Quest) - (Stone II in all but name)

lvl 40- Cure III (Job Quest) - No change

lvl 40 - TRAIT: Maim and Mend II - No change

lvl 45- Holy (Job Quest) - No change (as odd as it might sound Holy makes to most sense for the AoE skill compared to other options)

lvl 46 - TRAIT: Dia Mastery - Upgrades Aero to Dia

lvl 46 - Dia - (Aero II in all but name)

lvl 50 - Medica II - No change

lvl 50 - Benediction (Job Quest) - No change

lvl 52 - TRAIT: Secret of the Lily - No change

lvl 52 - Afflatus Solace - No change

lvl 52 - Asylum (Job Quest) - No change

lvl 54 - TRAIT: Banish Mastery II - Upgrades Banish to Banish II

lvl 54 - Banish II (Job Quest) - (Stone III in all but name)

lvl 56 - TRAIT: Protect Mastery - Upgrades Fluid Aura to Assize and Stoneskin to Divine Benison (this trait hints at the classic spell without having to reintegrate it since Devine Benison is basically how Protect should have been)

lvl 56 - Assize (Job Quest) - No change (upgrade version of Fluid Aura)

lvl 56 - Divine Benison (Job Quest) - No major changes except for a potency increase to 600 (upgrade version of Stoneskin)

lvl 58 - Thin Air (Job Quest) - No change

lvl 60 - Afflatus Rapture (Job Quest) - No change

lvl 62 - Reflect - Creates a refleclive barrier around self or target party member that deals 10% of all incoming damage back towards the attacking enemy.
Duration: 18s
Recast: 90s
Cost: 1 Lily

lvl 64 - TRAIT: Banish Mastery III - Upgrades Banish II to Banish III

lvl 64 - Banish III - (Stone 4 in all but name)

lvl 66 - Afflatus Haven - Restores own or target party member's HP.
Cure Potency: 200
Additional Effect: Regen
Cure Potency: 150
Duration: 15s
Cost: 1 Lily

lvl 70 - Plenary Indulgence - No changes

lvl 72 - TRAIT: Dia Mastery II - Upgrades Dia to Dia II

lvl 72 - TRAIT: Banish Mastery IV - Upgrades Banish to Banish IV

lvl 72- Dia II - (Dia in all but name... except it is Dia, lol)

lvl 72 - Banish IV - (Glare in all but name)

lvl 74 - TRAIT: Trancendent Afflatus - No change

lvl 74 - Afflatus Misery - No change

lvl 76 - Sacrosanctity - Instantly generate 3 lilies.
Can only be executed while in combat.
Recast: 120s

lvl 78 - TRAIT: Enhanced Asylum - No change

lvl 80 - Temperance - No Change

If you want FF<insert number here> version of WHM, then go play FF<insert number here>. This is FFXIV and it has its FFXIV version of WHM.

Appealing to the nostalgia of people who want FF<insert number here> things in FFXIV only leads garbage like Blue Mage, who at this point is nothing but a waste of development time. We might have had a new healer if they didn't waste time on BLU.