I think the biggest joke I face this expansion is that I played BRD / RDM / AST. This whole thing is just painful to watch, how RDM didn't even get touched when SMN did and how we now have 4 very clear benchwarmers is pretty awful.
And as a BRD main, I can't even be bothered doing more savage raiding right now, I don't particularly enjoy thinking "I should probably just level a BLM instead" while I play. I haven't even been able to put myself through leveling RDM, because it just feels agonizingly slow knowing what I know.
Ranged DPS role is about to be excluded from all content
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08-29-2019, 07:43 PMkajv95
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08-29-2019, 07:49 PMUnrealTai
A 50% blm is doing that to ALL dps though.
Ive been running mch and no other roles out dps me except for blm, and its typically by alot. If im between 10-12k (im only 453) a blm is at 15k.
Ranged physical is fine imo.
Caster ranged other than blm? rdm/smn, ouch. Ya, those needs work -
08-29-2019, 07:53 PMYandere-chan
I feel like you're disregarding that 1. Most players aren't hardcore players and the game won't survive off the small number of hardcore player subs alone thus Square must have balance feel appealing to casual players as well. 2. The ease of play advantage ranged dps have vs. other melee and even casters. I'm sorry, but being able to attack from almost any distance while being optimal in output is going to cost you ceiling dps. Maybe stop playing with people who would rather kick you off their teams than have a 1% less higher damage ceiling (if all things go well with extra melees or whatever).
Honestly, I don't think that's normal behavior and is more telling of who certain people hang around. I personally have 0 qualms with a player of any class if they are really good at playing that class while knowing all the mechanics very well in a fight. I think if the game was balanced around such limited focuses, the majority of the playerbase would end up less satisfied with the game, and sorry, just because you feel that you are a more hardcore player doesn't entitle your preferences to a a greater degree of consideration than even the most casual of pleebs you'd likely hate to even be associated with. Square is making some adjustments to some classes, and I think that's good, but I think it's clear they do not want to only balance classes around the desires of 1337 hardcore gamers™ either... Which is probably also good. -
08-29-2019, 07:55 PMdinnertimeYes, SMN got touched, but it's a QoL change. SMN is still in a bad place damage-wise being 1.2k behind the DPS above it so make that 5 benchwarmers.Quote:
Originally Posted by kajv95
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08-29-2019, 07:56 PMHyoMinParkI’m going to be frank: if you’re only getting outDPS’d by BLMs, any MNKs, DRGs, or SAMs you’re meeting are downright bad at their jobs. It’s easy to see from the percentile rankings that all three of those are performing higher compared to a MCH at the same percentile, and some at lower percentiles are straight-up outperforming the physical ranged at the higher percentiles.Quote:
Originally Posted by UnrealTai
The physical ranged are not fine. Not by any stretch.
“Average” BLMs and “average” MNKs are doing better than the “hardcore” physical ranged. The discrepancy between some of the jobs is truly astounding when you consider the different percentiles and how “average-tier” for some jobs still beat high-tier physical ranged play. See ForteNightshade’s prior comments about 50th percentile BLMs doing more damage than any of the physical ranged at a 95th percentile level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yandere-chan
Having a small cost for mobility seems fine, in my opinion. I won’t speak for anyone else. However, I don’t think the cost should be 1,000~1,500 in term of damage—for some jobs, it’s even more than that! This tax is too high, and it’s heavily skewed when you consider the “Big Jobs” (BLM, MNK, DRG, SAM, and now possibly NIN) versus the physical ranged. Even in the caster role, there is a heavy skew towards BLM compared to SMN and RDM. The differences between the jobs are not small.Quote:
2. The ease of play advantage ranged dps have vs. other melee and even casters. I'm sorry, but being able to attack from almost any distance while being optimal in output is going to cost you ceiling dps.
You’re ignoring the trickle down effect that metas have on the more midcore and softcore raiders. It’s not uncommon for players to hear that certain jobs are underperforming and begin to lock them out of parties due to hearsay, whether its true or not. I’ve already seen some instances of DNCs being excluded from Savage PFs on Aether—and while this may not affect me since I have a static, not every DNC is in a static setting. There’s also a lot of criticism against the job itself for having such low personal damage, and raid buffs that don’t quite compensate for how low said personal damage is. There were similar complaints surrounding NIN—and look at what is being done for it: potency buffs this patch, plus plans for job reworks in Patch 5.1.Quote:
Maybe stop playing with people who would rather kick you off their teams than have a 1% less higher damage ceiling (if all things go well with extra melees or whatever).
Honestly, I don't think that's normal behavior and is more telling of who certain people hang around. I personally have 0 qualms with a player of any class if they are really good at playing that class while knowing all the mechanics very well in a fight. I think if the game was balanced around such limited focuses, the majority of the playerbase would end up less satisfied with the game, and sorry, just because you feel that you are a more hardcore player doesn't entitle your preferences to a a greater degree of consideration than even the most casual of pleebs you'd likely hate to even be associated with. Square is making some adjustments to some classes, and I think that's good, but I think it's clear they do not want to only balance classes around the desires of 1337 hardcore gamers™ either... Which is probably also good.
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08-29-2019, 07:56 PMForteNightshade... have you seen Monk? At 50%, Black Mage is pulling an average of 13,063. Now lets look at Monk, Dragoon and Samurai at just 60%. This is all on E4S.Quote:
Originally Posted by UnrealTai
Dragoon: 13,237
Monk: 13,515
Samurai: 12,904
So the only one that doesn't completely slaughter Black Mage is Samurai... who just received a buff. Likewise, Ninja will be trailing just behind Dragoon now. So now, a 50% Black Mage isn't doing that to all DPS. Please actually look up these statistics if you're going to comment. -
08-29-2019, 08:01 PMVendalwind
Im a recently made very happy nin main. Who also plays dancer and smn. And very much yes. All phys ranged need a bump. And smn/rdm do too.
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08-29-2019, 08:02 PMSathona
black magic hate D:
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08-29-2019, 08:04 PMMyon88"I'm doing 3-5k less dps than a blm, but ranged is fine I guess".Quote:
Originally Posted by UnrealTai
If you do extreme trials at most and only run into random players off the street of questionable and mediocre skill, of course you're going to do more dps than them. But that's a horrible way to judge balance. Even if you were with players as good as you, that only proves the point of this thread (that the numbers are balanced at average skill levels) - and in any case, we already have plenty of empirical data out there letting you compare jobs of equivalent percentiles against each other, like has been done at the start of this thread. -
08-29-2019, 08:04 PMkajv95Whew, was almost scared that actually did anything!Quote:
Originally Posted by dinnertime
Welcome to the bench, buddy.