I'm honestly content with how SMN plays right now. Do I understand the complaints? Yes. Yet despite that, SMN feels more like SMN than it ever has thematically, has similar punishment for jump phases/downtime compared to its other caster DPS, and for the first time ever doesn't feel like it's sacrificing its fluidity to do any of that. It's not perfect by any means, but I'd rather not see any rotational changes. For the first time since HW, my only concern is the numbers.
Even so, if SE wants to restore what people liked about SMN's gains from downtime before, what I'd like to see them do is add charges on DWT/Tri-disaster/Energy Drain (while also boosting Tri-Disaster's cooldown to 1 minute), lock them to 1 charge on instance transition/reset, and only let them charge during combat, akin to WHM's Lilies. I feel that's a good compromise overall. The only other thing would be allowing Devotion to be used by Bahamut/Phoenix if people really think that's needed. I don't feel it is, but the option's there.
Numerically, I'd like to see Ruin II and IV buffed by 20 potency each (basically copy Ruin I to Ruin II, and up the base potency of Ruin IV), a 10 potency increase on each of their DoTs (as it's less problematic to adjust compared to Ruin III), and allow Ruination to affect Fountain of Fire/Brand of Purgatory, Phoenix's spells. As far as I can tell it doesn't appear to right now. If it does, update the tooltips to communicate that.
How to fix summoners.
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08-08-2019, 04:35 PMGrimoire-M
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08-08-2019, 08:30 PMZerathorA job in a bad spot isn't the most played job of a role by a significant margin. Ninja, is in a bad spot, stormblood machinist was in a bad spot. This? This is people being upset the job isn't absurdly overpowered anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendalwind
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08-08-2019, 11:05 PMMyon88Could you explain how you think BLM is similarly punished during downtime now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimoire-M
Polyglot continues to tick while combat is paused, and with the addition of an extra charge it's now essentially a skill with 3 charges. Impossible to overcap if you're playing properly. It's a very valuable resource as xenoglossy is one of the most powerful tools they received this expansion.
They have also always been able to regenerate MP in downtime at their leisure, ensuring when combat restarts they begin with a full MP bar instead of however much they had when the downtime happened. Umbral soul makes things even more convenient, as no longer do you have to juggle between af1 and ui1 with transpose. Instead you can simply keep yourself in umbral ice, build up to ui3, and generate umbral hearts to boot. This lets you skip b4 when combat restarts, as well as enter fire with a fast f3 by virtue of being in ui3. They now regain their max output state extremely quickly after downtime because of this. -
08-09-2019, 12:30 AMLetz1. Can you tell us with what evidence you see this "significant margin"? And even if that were true:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerathor
2. Your argument is based on whether people are still playing SMN or not, which is not related to whether or not there are problems with the job in the first place.
3. If the job was overpowered in previous expansions, it is also unrelated to whether the job has problems with it currently. -
08-09-2019, 12:31 AMLetzAll of Titan Savage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drayos
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08-09-2019, 01:01 AMZerathor1.https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/29Quote:
Originally Posted by Letz
I guess week 2 they fell more in line with blm in popularity on all fights combined
Get down to titan, it's still in lead slightly
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/29#boss=68
2. I've seen jobs in unplayable job positions. Know what people did? Not play them anywhere near this much. Especially not in the first few weeks of a new tier.
3. I feel it's related because many have forgotten how it feels to be in a more balanced position when they were used to being on a pedestal. -
08-09-2019, 02:23 AMLetzQuote:
Originally Posted by Zerathor
1. Yes, BLM and SMN seem to be pretty much even across the board now. And I expect that BLM will overtake it soon after people stop prioritizing SMN because of its rez in prog. But either way, even as it stands now, I wouldn't consider that a significant margin.
2. I would not categorize the complaints players have as calling SMN "unplayable." Obviously there are people who are dramatic, but that goes for all jobs. I believe this is a more annoying position that SMN is in currently, compared to AST in 5.0. SMN is playable, but still flawed. Therefore, the devs might feel less pressure to fix the flaws and bugs, because it is still playable, unlike broken af AST which got its rework immediately. Compare that to what happened with MCH all throughout SB. It had major flaws, but it was still playable, so that's where it sat literally all expansion. Yes, they tweaked potencies and small things, but that never solved any issues design-wise. That is what a lot of SMNs don't want to see happen. So being vocal now is the best chance to get the dev's to focus on SMN.
3. I will say – that's a good point. I do believe that SCHs outcry was heavily influenced by the favoritism they experienced until 5.0. However, we are still here to discuss SMNs issues, and not the playerbase's reactions to the flaws, whether they are overreactions or justified. So that's a good metric to dismiss certain reactions to issues, but not the issues themselves.
To add to this, I believe a lot of more casual players don't perceive issues that affect playability because letting abilities drift and clipping don't really bother people until they become interested in playing optimally. So their feedback is that the job is fine, which is placing a lot of weight on the other side of the scale – feedback which is influenced by personal play choices and not an objective evaluation of the job's design. -
08-09-2019, 03:19 AMZerathorI find its the opposite really. The casuals can't figure out what the hell is going on and want it extremely simplified or reworked. The good smns I've talked to enjoy the pace and only complain about the clipping bug on first WW. At least out of people I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letz
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08-09-2019, 03:39 AMExodus-E
Removing the Ruin IV proc' from both Egi Assault(s), as well as making them more "useful" and less "spammable" (Garuda-Egi's Slipstream which applies a ground DoT, and Titan-Egi's Earthen Armor are good examples) would go a long way into making it less busy/clunky.
Adjusting Ifrit-Egi's Crimson Cyclone so it rushes to its target (as a "gap closer") would be nice as well. -
08-09-2019, 11:07 AMGrimoire-MThis may come as a shocker, but recovery has very little to do with it. The problem isn't BLM's ability to recover at all. Most of BLM's damage is still tied up in Fire IV itself. Downtime just naturally hurts them more, but Xenoglossy/Foul and their cooldowns still tick during that period, which are frankly minor compensations compared to what some classes get, relatively speaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myon88
RDM similarly loses the ability to generate and spend B/W Mana but this is minorly offset by Contre Sixtre/Fleche/Displacement/Corps-a-Corps. The bulk of their DPS still remains in their spells.
In SMN's case they now lose Energy Drains if the downtime is long enough, which effectively costs two festers/painflares as well. If the downtime occurs at the right time and is upwards of 50s in length, it can eat into Egi Assaults and more importantly, Trance windows. Either by way of making Bahamut align poorly (which you can compensate for by just blowing DWT early), or simply by delaying when you get to use Phoenix, which is the bigger deal imo. SMN still focuses on its burst windows relative to the other two casters, but SE's changes going into ShB have been targeted at their filler in an attempt to make it as important as the other caster DPS. And it shows in their numbers, for the most part. If you're getting full Bahamut/Phoenix value, using Ruin IV to move around and weave Fester/Painflare/Assaults, and keeping Energy Drain/Trance on cooldown, and always casting Ruin III otherwise, you're generally parsing well right now.
It's just numbers that are a concern, and in that matter Zerathor has the right of it. We're solidly middle of the pack. Something that hasn't been true of SMN since ARR to my knowledge.