Dancer suggestion change in 5.1

The biggest problem of DNC is not the RNG per se, but the fact that you're gated behind two layers of RNG to obtain your ogcd abilities, the feathers.
To people unfamiliar, in a nutshell: Your have a 50% chance of the 1st proc, THEN this proc'd ability has another 50% chance of awarding a feather when used.

Why is this an issue? Feathers are the resource used to cast Fan Dances, basically our main ogcd abilities. Without them, our rotation has nothing to be woven in between the gcds, thus making the gameplay quite... dull.

Possible solutions:

1) I like the OP's proposition, is the simplest one - just remove one of these RNG layers;

2) Our Flourish (the ability) having a 100% chance to grant a feather on the abilities it procs - this would not just make the RNG more bearable, but will also let us spend our feathers more freely before a Technical Step. Currently we basically have to treat the job's feather gauge as a 1-charge thing, because we have to constantly hoard the other 3 charges for our burst phase.

3) Making Saber Dance an ogcd. Maybe some potency adjustments or a little 4s recast time would be needed to balance it in that case;

I've never truly enjoyed rng aspects of any job except BLM and likely only because for BLM it's not the main mechanic of the job.

I'd enjoy reducing the rng aspect of the job as much as possible without reducing the joba potencies or DPS. We're already at the bottom of the red icons, we don't need to be lower just for some QoL.

I'm actually fine with how Saber Dance is and honestly think that making it oGCD wouldn't be as simple as people make it seem to be. Our 76 trait and 80 capstone are both tied to Saber Dance and making it oGCD would remove that relationship, prompting a new trait and new primary effect effect of our capstone.

As we are, I think our DPS could be tweaked in favor of higher numbers though I think giving more control over our resources would do this without touching our damage potencies. I do, however, feel like Curing Waltz is far too weak for how long of a CD it has. All of its potential requires a dance partner and proper stacking and even then you won't heal even 10% of anyone's MHP after all that effort. It could stand to be used more frequently for how weak it is or heal more.

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Originally Posted by Kemiko

I've never truly enjoyed rng aspects of any job except BLM and likely only because for BLM it's not the main mechanic of the job.

I'd enjoy reducing the rng aspect of the job as much as possible without reducing the joba potencies or DPS. We're already at the bottom of the red icons, we don't need to be lower just for some QoL.

I'm actually fine with how Saber Dance is and honestly think that making it oGCD wouldn't be as simple as people make it seem to be. Our 76 trait and 80 capstone are both tied to Saber Dance and making it oGCD would remove that relationship, prompting a new trait and new primary effect effect of our capstone.

As we are, I think our DPS could be tweaked in favor of higher numbers though I think giving more control over our resources would do this without touching our damage potencies. I do, however, feel like Curing Waltz is far too weak for how long of a CD it has. All of its potential requires a dance partner and proper stacking and even then you won't heal even 10% of anyone's MHP after all that effort. It could stand to be used more frequently for how weak it is or heal more.

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To be fair, our capstone also needs to be looked at, because as it stands, is useless most of the time, because the optimal moments to cast Improvisation - the ones that nothing is happening and boss is un-targetable - are extremely rare... And if you use it in any other moment, you'd be doing more dps by doing your rotation than using the esprit gained with it (if the party stacks, that is). The only marginal use I actually have for Improv atm is to boost the healing after a big aoe if I see healers struggling.

And yeah, Curing Waltz def. needs a buff, both in potency and in range.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

To be fair, our capstone also needs to be looked at, because as it stands, is useless most of the time, because the optimal moments to cast Improvisation - the ones that nothing is happening and boss is un-targetable - are extremely rare... And if you use it in any other moment, you'd be doing more dps by doing your rotation than using the esprit gained with it (if the party stacks, that is). The only marginal use I actually have for Improv atm is to boost the healing after a big aoe if I see healers struggling.

And yeah, Curing Waltz def. needs a buff, both in potency and in range.

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That's... literally the point of Improvisation. It's your equivalent to meditate or anatman, a skill you pop during downtime to give you resources.

Personally, I never had any issues with the feather proc chance. I always have enough (3 or 4) stocked up for burst phases, and have never found myself lacking save for synced content where it doesn't matter too much anyways. I don't really think much of the Fourfold Feather needs to be changed. The RNG doesn't bother me, but I mained BRD all through SB, which was nothing but proc-based Crit RNG, so I guess that's why I don't have issues. Nor do I have issues with the Esprit gain - my static is very good about giving me my Esprit for my burst windows. :3

I feel like me having no complaints about the RNG is an unpopular viewpoint.

The suggestion a few posts above me of the Flourished procs from Flourish granting 100% feather RNG isn't a terrible one. I just wonder by how much that would boost our damage, and if they would have to take potencies off elsewhere to compensate. Or if we would end up more balanced with BRD/MCH. I think it's a fairly reasonable suggestion.

Tl;dr - Overall, the RNG isn't an issue for me. But I also mained a heavily RNG job last expansion so maybe that's why, and I'm simply just used to it.


The only change I would want to see is Saber Dance as an oGCD. I get so sad to see good Esprit RNG overcap my gauge while I'm just trying to fit everything else in my Technical Finish windows. Even if I spend Esprit before my Standard Finish during it, I'll watch it jump from 30~40 to 90~100 during the 5 seconds I'm dancing, and it just feelsbad. This doesn't happen every time, but when it does I'm staring at my Esprit gauge making a face.

The change to oGCD would probably mean a slight potency hit (though I think DNC could stand to not have the potency of Saber Dance hit too harshly given how it is the lowest physical ranged right now in terms of rDPS by anywhere from 100 to 300 rDPS last I looked at rankings), but I think it would make Technical windows feel a bit more smoother. I like the busy feel of DNC burst, but it sucks to not be able to fit it all in because of good Saber Dance RNG. A short CD of 3s to 5s Maximum would suffice, I think; even 1s would be fine. I just think it being an oGCD would be much smoother.

I don't think Improvisation is an adequate enough reason to not make Saber Dance oGCD, simply because the skill itself is used only during fight down time unless you weave it for a healing buff (I've spoken with my static healers for this and they've yet to tell me of any spot in Eden Savage where they would want it, so it's mostly unused for me currently unless I pop it to build up Esprit during E1S or E4S transition phases). It's not a skill you use on CD - it's very niche just like SAM's Meditate. The only change I'd want to see is to allow it to give 10 Esprit flat per tick for if you attempt to weave it in for the healing buff. It annoys my OCD to see it tick and give me a Esprit amount of, for example, 8. Then I have X8 Esprit all the time, and that just bothers me lol.


I think DNC dmaage could come up just a tiny bit - maybe by 100~200 rDPS. But I don't think we're in dire need of pDPS buffs. It's not as it we're massively behind the other physical ranged like RDM and SMN are to BLM, or NIN and SAM are compared to MNK and DRG. Our job is a support job that can easily bring 1,500+ rDPS to a group with just our Dance Partner and Technical Finish, so we should have lower pDPS by default.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

That's... literally the point of Improvisation. It's your equivalent to meditate or anatman, a skill you pop during downtime to give you resources.

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I'm aware, but even if we compare them, Improv is not on par with that kind of utility. It requires the party to stack, and even so the esprit gain is too slow. Anatman is a pause button for the GL stacks, with a much shorter recast time, it can be useful in more niche situations. You can use Meditate on demand.

Plus, I know that doesn't mean much in the bigger scope of the picture, but that being our level 80 ability is pretty...meh?

Shocked to see more wanted changes to the rng system. Would love to see more opinions about possible Dancer changes in 5.1.

Nerf standard finish buff to partner to 1%
Nerf Technical Step buff to party to 2%

Buff the rest of dancer personal dps to red mage level and your dancer is fixed

- 100% feathers proc on flourish.
- 100% proc chance combo if the first hit did not proc
- saber dance ogcd


I don’t mind potency nerf if it’s OP. It’s more fun this way of less rng.

Put in a trait at lvl 74 standard step gives you 1 fan and technical gives you 4 fans