[Spoilers] I’m irrevocably Unimpressed

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Originally Posted by Enla

He literally wants to destroy all life on the Source and it's Shards to resurrect his people... Who are speculated to not only have contributed to the death of their star via excessive use of Creation but whom also killed themselves off by refusing to stop chasing the past. Their own actions caused Hydaelyn to be summoned. Their own actions saw their people sundered. Their own actions hold every bit the same amount of arrogance then as in now. The Ascians had a chance eons ago to save their star at great, but not civilization destroying expense and instead of licking their wounds, they plotted to steal life from people outside their society to resurrect those who died to create Zodiark.

At the point Zodiark had just been summoned and the Star saved they were not evil. Even when they proposed their plans of cultivating the star for reaping, you could understand where they were coming from as most humans would at least entertain the thoughts that were swirling in their heads. Yet they went through with it. Then, once it failed and the Star was split, they /kept/ on doing it. Killing in the millions if not billions to resurrect what had long since turned to ash. At that point they had long since expended the moral high ground. In a story so hero driven, they were never going to win when their end game was the death of everyone to restart anew.

Now if they /didn't/ require genocide to get their way there'd be more wiggle room to argue. But they do. So, yes, they are by most definitions evil even if you understand where they are coming from.

Ten characters. Also if you want to play a game from SE where the bad guy 'wins', go play FF6.

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What exactly is he "destroying"?

We are REFLECTIONS.

We're no different than ghosts!

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Originally Posted by Enla

He literally wants to destroy all life on the Source and it's Shards to resurrect his people... Who are speculated to not only have contributed to the death of their star via excessive use of Creation but whom also killed themselves off by refusing to stop chasing the past. Their own actions caused Hydaelyn to be summoned. Their own actions saw their people sundered. Their own actions hold every bit the same amount of arrogance then as in now. The Ascians had a chance eons ago to save their star at great, but not civilization destroying expense and instead of licking their wounds, they plotted to steal life from people outside their society to resurrect those who died to create Zodiark.

At the point Zodiark had just been summoned and the Star saved they were not evil. Even when they proposed their plans of cultivating the star for reaping, you could understand where they were coming from as most humans would at least entertain the thoughts that were swirling in their heads. Yet they went through with it. Then, once it failed and the Star was split, they /kept/ on doing it. Killing in the millions if not billions to resurrect what had long since turned to ash. At that point they had long since expended the moral high ground. In a story so hero driven, they were never going to win when their end game was the death of everyone to restart anew.

Now if they /didn't/ require genocide to get their way there'd be more wiggle room to argue. But they do. So, yes, they are by most definitions evil even if you understand where they are coming from.

Ten characters. Also if you want to play a game from SE where the bad guy 'wins', go play FF6.

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My message is definitely not too short..

They weren't killing anybody though, they volunteered to be sacrificed to save their society as a whole. After the split, they do not see what they are doing now as actually killing anybody either. All life as it is now are as Emet put it, malformed creations. Everyone from the shards is just a piece of someone from the source's soul. Rather they are pieces of what was once a single soul of what ascian race was, as shown when Emet thought he saw the WoL as their 'original' self.

The WoL is hinted at once playing an important part in the past before the split, Emet recognized them. To clarify they do not see the people of today's world(s) as people. They want to sacrifice them to make them whole again, as they once were. They are thinking on a grander scale, we are talking souls here not the mortal bodies. Unfortunately, even if they did successfully unify all the worlds into the source, and bring back the old. The same thing would just happen again.

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Originally Posted by mario710

I don't follow the 'genocide is bad' philosophy. It is clearly stated that we don't actually EXIST. Everyone and everything across the different shards are fragmented reflections.

Yes, genocide is awful, however, mending a fragmented existence does not count as genocide. As Emet-Selch put it: "You are not actually alive to me."

Well, would you look at that? Guess what? He's right.

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Yeah, he says we don't exist because that's how he copes with doing mass genocide. It's pretty clear we do exist. A fragmented soul is still a soul.

Points towards WW2. Come on dude. Guess who also used the same philosophy.

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Someone please help me understand why the bad guys are never allowed to win?

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If the bad guys win, the world literally ends and we all die.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

My message is definitely not too short..

They weren't killing anybody though, they volunteered to be sacrificed to save their society as a whole. After the split, they do not see what they are doing now as actually killing anybody either. All life as it is now are as Emet put it, malformed creations. Everyone from the shards is just a piece of someone from the source's soul. Rather they are pieces of what was once a single soul of what ascian race was, as shown when Emet thought he saw the WoL as their 'original' self.

The WoL is hinted at once playing an important part in the past before the split, Emet recognized them. To clarify they do not see the people of today's world(s) as people. They want to sacrifice them to make them whole again, as they once were. They are thinking on a grander scale, we are talking souls here not the mortal bodies. Unfortunately, even if they did successfully unify all the worlds into the source, and bring back the old. The same thing would just happen again.

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Seriously, I cannot believe genocide of all things was brought into this. Did any of you not read the story? We are not actually alive.

The rejoining absolutely should happen. We are fragmented souls? If all the shards rejoin the source, then we become whole? Are you ok with being a ghost?

Is it genocide to delete your entire portfolio of dead family members?

Aight, calm down Satan.

I can just imagine someone translating this to Yoshida, and he's just shaking his head and going 'What sort of damage must you have to think killing off billions is okay.'

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Originally Posted by Barraind

If the bad guys win, the world literally ends and we all die.

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words I guess

Our souls would live on and be made whole again. Again, souls work differently than mortal bodies. Our mortal bodies are, as emet puts it malformed. Our soul, if whole, is that of an ascian.

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Originally Posted by mario710

What exactly is he "destroying"?

We are REFLECTIONS.

We're no different than ghosts!

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That's incorrect.

Originally, yes, when Hydaelyn first sundered Zodiark, everyone was "split" across the various shards. But since then, new races and creatures and various forms of life have developed. Not everyone and everything is a fragment of the Ascians.

The only ones who are fragments of Ascians now are those with the Echo.

EDIT: Also, why are you guys spoiler tagging your posts? The OP has [Spoiler] in the title, so no need.

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Originally Posted by mario710

I don't follow the 'genocide is bad' philosophy. It is clearly stated that we don't actually EXIST. Everyone and everything across the different shards are fragmented reflections.

Yes, genocide is awful, however, restoring a shade does not count as genocide. As Emet-Selch put it: "You are not actually alive to me."

Well, would you look at that? Guess what? He's right.

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Genocide is okay if you don't think people are alive. What an interesting philosophical debate that would be.

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Originally Posted by mario710

Someone please help me understand why the bad guys are never allowed to win?

Something seemed awfully wrong about the way Emet-Selch was taken out. By all accounts, he should have won.

I mean, are Ascians even evil?

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The Ascians as a whole? No. Unless something comes to light later, they were innocent victims of forces beyond their control.

Emet-Selch? Elidibus? Lahabrea? Whatever their reasons for beginning their crusade, they've engaged in murderous, duplicitous, and sadistic acts throughout the eons to further their goal. Mere moments before the final battle, Emet-Selch went on what can only be described as a racist tirade. He claimed that his race is the only one worthy of existence, because everyone else is inferior and diluted.

Is that evil? That's subjective, of course, but I certainly wouldn't consider it good. Elidibus certainly isn't planning for peaceful co-existence going forward and neither did his brethren ever seem to do so. Now you can claim all that is due to Zodiark's influence, but they're the ones who summoned him in the first place. You've also got to figure the other Ascians had a damn good reason for summoning Hydaelyn. Clearly it wasn't as hunky-dory as Emet-Selch claimed. How many of the sacrifices in Zodiark's name were really willing? What else might have been going on that our rather biased narrator failed to mention?

Ah, nothing to see here. It's all up there if you dare.