What if... the base "Classes" got Job Crystals, to convert them into different roles?

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Originally Posted by chokoanders01

it dosent just have to do with pets it has to do with every move you learn from the base class so that means stuff like ruin 2 and shadowflare

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I didn't say just. At the point they split those abilities can now be part of the individual jobs. Those abilities don't have to be the same thing anymore but they choose to keep them the same, their design choice. They do have some abilities change. They don't have to keep them related.

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Originally Posted by Tanama

The idea would be awesome if done correctly. I would definitely like to branch Archer off into Ranger and make it DPS focused. Imagine Conjurer branching off into a mage that could cast Flood, Quake and Tornado to name a few ancient magicks.

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Lore wise that's exactly why white magic is forbidden. It'd have to be a whole unrelated class or retcon the CNJ lore for it to make sense.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Lore wise that's exactly why white magic is forbidden. It'd have to be a whole unrelated class or retcon the CNJ lore for it to make sense.

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Either that, or maybe just introduce it as a new Job? I've never played a Conjurer, but that *sounds* quite a lot like a Geomancer. Perhaps it could be introduced by a new character wandering the shroud (maybe a Viera or Hrothgar?) who was drawn to Gridania for tales of communing with the elements, but was cast out for attempting to *command* the elements instead of working in service to them?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Not gonna happen. They already admitted it was a mistake doing that with sch/smn, and will not be doing it again.

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That was because of multiple glaring mistakes in surrounding systems, not the SCH/SMN pairing itself. None of the issues they actively set alongside that pairing were necessary or unavoidable. One might as well say that clothes are a mistake after somehow wearing a sweater both backwards and upside down.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Because if they wanted to adjust skills for one variant, it would effect the other, unless they used job traits, which they are doing with smn and sch now.

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Right, unless they do that thing they already did, and could have done with the launch of ARR, that makes all of that a non-issue and would, had it been implemented in its reasonable time, have left us all ignorant that such an issue could even exist. Again, an error in surrounding systems, not the concept.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Lore wise that's exactly why white magic is forbidden. It'd have to be a whole unrelated class or retcon the CNJ lore for it to make sense.

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At no point does the CNJ lore say never to cast powerful elemental abilities. Advice for discretion and not destroying the world are rather separate from a ban on any greater elemental magics.

Moreover, Flood, Tornado, and Earthquake are not, in themselves, White Magic, if I recall correctly. White Magic is defined by source and means, and should be quite distinct in that regard from basic conjury, as we see through Sylphie who, like her mother, was trying to channel through the strength of her soul, rather than through blessing of the elements. The Black Mage story line similarly focuses on the means of channeling this magic, rather than the particular elements in question.

You needn't "retcon" all of the lore to allow the Elementalist class to actually use its elements for more than mundane DoTs and rock-tossing. You might, however, need a retcon in order to call Flood, Tornado, or the like "(uniquely) White Magic". Sylphie gives us a view of White Magic as augmenting spells through her own aether, while the Mhachi, like Black Mages (or, the Amdapori), instead use ambient aether. Either one is technically an a means of infusion (albeit typically collocative with three particular elements), not an elemental category (just as, say, carne asade is still beef, just seared). And if we're talking about Conjurers specifically, there is no such infusion or new approach to the associated elements. You don't get White Magic until you become a White Mage. You just have... Conjury.

Yet the CNJ specifically in Gridania are the element's <slang for female dog> so they still wouldn't allow magic that's meant to be for succor as destructive damage forces unless the split is considered a "dark/misunderstood path" a la DRK. I'm not necessarily saying I'm against it, just that - as far as immersion and lore goes - that would be a controversial idea, at best.

so basically like the alternative class like in ragnarok online.

more class is fine but, not sure how the skill variation is going to be