Do we have some kind of FFXIV lore wiki?

Okay,thank you all for your answers! I am going abit away from the main title,so I will stop discussing it here and instead make a new topic whenever I have some questions.
I guess I need to take the lore on "smaller scale" since on the "larger" one it seems that we (barely) know anything about. Which I ,kinda, like and dont like at the same time (if it makes any sense).
I will give my speculation on it so whatever comes with it in the end (or more likely,not).
I say, Hydaelyn and Zodiark are neither good or bad,just 2 opposed sides chasing each other down,if rejoining would happen I think you would get the same loop with Zodiark as we have it with Hydaelyn now (finiding balance,causing calamities etc).
So I actually think the "big goal" is to get rid of both of them,Hydaelyn and Zodiark,so people that live can live forever in peace. Or maybe I just love FFX too much so thats how I kinda came to that idea,I dont know and I will leave it at that.
Once again,thank you all for your answers!

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Originally Posted by Amekaze

I say, Hydaelyn and Zodiark are neither good or bad

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I keep going back and forth on this. I think either Hydaelyn is incidentally both Light and benevolent to mortal life, and Zodiark is incidentally both Dark and hostile to mortal life, and the "good" and "evil" in all this is relative. It's also possible that Zodiark is per-ordained to be selfish and fight against the Light because "that is the nature of the Dark." (Think The Scorpion and the Frog.) At the very least, from his first appearance I haven't trusted Elidibus as far as I can spit, and I'm going to laugh of the overlords are just his first wave of suckers.

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Originally Posted by Amekaze

So I actually think the "big goal" is to get rid of both of them,Hydaelyn and Zodiark,so people that live can live forever in peace.

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The big question is, is that possible? Some of the mythology is phrased in such a way that it seems as though people believe the physical world to be a result of the aetherial. If the world itself is a projection of the cosmogony of the Great Crystal(s), can it exist (as we know it) without them? Will (re)merging Hydaelyn and Zodiark, or destroying them both, result in fundamental changes to our planet and reality as we know it? It wouldn't be very Final Fantasy of us to just shut up and take that.

But maybe it's a red herring. It wouldn't be the first time we've changed Crystal status quo and gotten away with it.

There are a fair few sites that have a good amount of lore, but it's spread out across them and none have everything. I and some others are making an attempt to gather up what we can; it's slow going, as any new project is, but as our numbers grow and our knowledge base expands, it'll be more comprehensive. We're always looking for help, too!

We're here.

Gamer Escape has some solid information, though much of it either is copy-pasted from the Encyclopaedias or is mechanics (which is extremely helpful, tbh, but more for your game-players than roleplayers). It's a fine go-to, in either case! They also have a weekly podcast, sometimes a Lorecast episode.

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Originally Posted by Amekaze

I say, Hydaelyn and Zodiark are neither good or bad

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While you're not the only one to take this stance, it's worth pointing out that there is very little in-game evidence pointing to the idea that Hydaelyn is anything but good. Everyone except for the Ascians and the Primals who knows of Hydaelyn's existence think that she's the bee's knees, all of our personal interactions with her have involved her defending or supporting us, all of the subtle clues we're given as to her motivations (such as the lyrics to Answers) paint her as a being who loves living things, wishes for them to live free, and despairs when they come to harm. Probably the most questionable thing we've seen her do is acquire Minfilia as her Emissary, and even if that was done without her consent, it's highly likely Minnie would have given it, had circumstances allowed.

Certainly, there could come a twist revelation later on that nope, Hydaelyn is actually an inscrutable alien with blue and orange morality whose actions only SEEMED to be beneficial, or that all of her goodness up to now has actually been a front and she's actually a self-absorbed Shin Megami Tensei style God who wishes to crush all opposition and enslave all creation - but none of that is indicated in what we know NOW. It's worth pointing out that, unlike in FFX, NO ONE we know of worships Hydaelyn. There is no Church of Hydaelyn, and the folks that do know about her see her as a powerful ally, not an object of worship. There is no all-powerful Church to stand as an adversary (Ishgard has one - but they worship Halone, one of the Twelve Gods of Eorzea, who are relatively unknown outside of Eorzea, and Halone has no direct connection to Hydaelyn).

Zodiark is much more of a mystery. We know very little of him, other than that Hydaelyn was opposed to him and imprisoned him, and that the people who wish to free him are THOROUGHLY unpleasant. That still leaves plenty of room for him to be Not Evil, but as of now we do not know one way or another.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Probably the most questionable thing we've seen her do is acquire Minfilia as her Emissary, and even if that was done without her consent, it's highly likely Minnie would have given it, had circumstances allowed.

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Was it really w/o her consent though? Sure it was a bit of a do it now or don't situation, but I'm pretty sure Minfillia willingly went back to get swallowed up by 'Flow'.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Was it really w/o her consent though? Sure it was a bit of a do it now or don't situation, but I'm pretty sure Minfillia willingly went back to get swallowed up by 'Flow'.

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Reading back, I see that my wording was unclear. I meant to say that we do not know whether or not Minfilia consented to become an Emissary. In the scene where we were escaping with her, and she turned back, we did not learn exactly what Hydaelyn communicated to her. We later learned that it caused her to be caught up in Y'shtola's emergency teleport, but did she get full disclosure as to what was to happen to her? ("A rare opportunity is unfolding. Your companion is about to undergo a dangerous ritual, but one that could send you to me, where I may anoint you as my Emmisary. Are you willing to shed your mortal form and take on this burden for the sake of this world and others?") Or was it more along the lines of, "Hey, Minnie, I need you to stand over here for a bit, 'kay?"

One thing that I neglected to mention that some folks ALSO take as evidence of Hydaelyn's "inner evil" is the FAN THEORY that Hydaelyn is CONSUMING the Lifestreams of the Shards when they rejoin, in order to repair the damage caused by the Calamities. This consumption may or may not be voluntary on her part, but these fans find it sinister that she's not sharing that information with us. Again, though, the problem is that there's little or no in-game evidence that this is happening. We don't know what is involved with a Rejoining. Hydaelyn may have nothing to do with it at all. It's a bit like coming up with the wild theory that Google burns endangered African rhinos in a giant furnace to power their servers, and then accusing them of skulduggery for not being open with their rhino-burning ways.

We actually do get confirmation in 3.4 that while Hydaelyn wasn't in a place to ask Minfillia if she was willing to act as Hydaelyn's Emassary, Minfillia says she would have said yes if Hydaelyn dig get the opportunity to ask. So I think that can be chalked up to Hydaelyn knowing Minfillia well enough to know what Minfillia would want.

And don't forget, that she was even in the position to be made Emissary was by her explicit consent.

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Originally Posted by The Word of the Mother

Mother... Hydaelyn guided me...towards Y'shtola and Thancred, that I might be swept up in their Flow...and delivered unto the aetherial sea...
There, adrift and alone, Her voice silent once more, I prayed... For those we have lost. For those we can yet save. To Her I would make an offering...
We speak now with one Voice. One Will. One Word.

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Minfilia has always been first in line to trust Hydaelyn and return the love she believes She has for Her children.

She volunteered three times over. At least.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

And don't forget, that she was even in the position to be made Emissary was by her explicit consent.


Minfilia has always been first in line to trust Hydaelyn and return the love she believes She has for Her children.

She volunteered three times over. At least.

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Well, judging by the quote you just wrote, it appears that she gave her explicit consent... AFTER she was cast adrift in the Lifestream. I'd say that most courts (and most reasonable people in general) would consider that to be consent made under duress, if it happened to a stranger they didn't know.

Naturally, knowing what we do about Minfilia, It's pretty safe to say that her prayers were heartfelt and NOT made because she feared for her life otherwise - but the fact remains that the position she was in meant it was quite likely that she would have died, if she had not joined with Hydaelyn, and Hydaelyn was the one who arranged to put her in that position.

I'm not saying that the folks arguing for a secretly sinister Hydaelyn have much of a leg to stand on. Given the overwhelmingly positive image the game paints of the deity, they're forced to REALLY scrape the bottom of the barrel when looking for evidence. It's situations like this that they latch onto to support their position, situations that, if you squint, look at them sideways, and strip away the romanticism, look kinda fishy.

As a retort to that, I think I'd point at 2.5 itself.

Minfilia freezes as she's escaping the bloody banquet, claiming that Hydaelyn is calling out to her. The message Hydaelyn sends her is something that she finds shocking; varying only slightly between languages, her first reply is "No!" / "By the Twelve!" / "That can't be!" It seems to be a warning of some kind.

She abandons their escape and claims she has to stay. In English, this is "I must remain behind...but you cannot stay with me." In German, she says that she "has something to do." In Japanese, she states that the purpose of her staying is "so we can accomplish our (Scions) mission."

As she's urging the Warrior of Light to go ahead without her, in English it comes off as though the Warrior of Light is too important to take unnecessary risks. ("Please, you must go on! You are the Warrior of Light! You are hope─for the Scions, and for all the realm! As long as your flame continues to burn, the light of the dawn may ever be relit! You must escape, and save Eorzea from those who would plunge it into darkness! 'Tis the only way...") In German and Japanese, she stresses "You must go on living."

It seems like Hydaelyn gave her plenty of warning that if she went back, she wouldn't technically survive, but could contribute something meaningful to her cause that otherwise would never be.

In German and French 3.2 she stresses that her only desire upon seeing Hydaelyn grown so weak was to merge with Her; she was so afraid of losing Hydaelyn that she wanted them to be permanently united so that she could prevent it.

If Hydaelyn is guilty here, it's a pretty egregious crime: capitalizing on Minfilia's trust and love specifically to exploit her to Her own benefit. And even then Minfilia went willingly, the accusation they're really making is that Minfilia was duped.