Incoming Astra/Scholar Nerfs

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

All her other topics are WHM focused, so yeah, but this one can stand on its own.

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this one isn't whm focus more of general imbalance discussion current healers have mostly a scholar and astra. not saying not give them new toys. scholar has been in need of a new pet for a very very long time. and poor selene sits on back burner alot cause eos overshadows her in every aspect.

as for astra - dont think nerfing them is really want is needed more then make it even harder for them by giving them new ways to play their cards. makes it even harder for them to pull that balance card , at same time keeping it fun. like idea you posted

this would give your job alot more rngs and uses with your sects so really like your idea

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Originally Posted by CelestaRosa

this one isn't whm focus more of general imbalance discussion current healers have mostly a scholar and astra. not saying not give them new toys. scholar has been in need of a new pet for a very very long time. and poor selene sits on back burner alot cause eos overshadows her in every aspect.

as for astra - dont think nerfing them is really want is needed more then make it even harder for them by giving them new ways to play their cards. makes it even harder for them to pull that balance card , at same time keeping it fun. like idea you posted

this would give your job alot more rngs and uses with your sects so really like your idea

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Slight revision on my idea:

New Spire effect: Reduces MP costs for target by 10%.
This would compliment it's counterpart in Ewer, while Ewer would recover lost MP, Spire would preserve MP, and with TP merging into MP this will benefit anyone.

Sects effect cards: Current effects are present in Diurnal Sect*, new effects for Nocturnal Sect target enemies instead of party.
Balance: Enemy deals 8% less damage for 15s.
Bole: Enemy takes 8% more damage for 15s. (does not stack with Trick attack)
Arrow: Enemy’s attack speed is reduced by 10% for 15s. (but certain special moves and phase changes are unaffected)
Spear: Enemy cannot deal critical hits for 15s.
Ewer: Inflicts a 50 potency DoT for 15s.
Spire: Enemy takes 10% of the damage they inflict on any party members for 15s.

The point of this is to allow dual-AST compositions to use their cards without worrying about overwriting the other’s effects.
The duration is nerfed to 15s for Nocturnal effects as they could be more OP than party buffs, with Bole/Balance nerfed in potency to 8% as well.
*Diurnal Balance and Bole also nerfed to 8% effect.

I think this would also see Nocturnal Sect favoured more over Diurnal in some ways, due to an Enhanced Bole being more effective than Trick attack. (12% more damage over 15s) Would be a neat way of improving the currently inferior Nocturnal Sect.

Do you need to create the same thread again ?
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...mmer-is-coming

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Originally Posted by CelestaRosa

their buffs/utility makes them too strong cause this pretty much makes them auto-include. and gives them edge over the other two healers.

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Basically, a WHM who can't even see SCH is represented in 90% of the party but it's AST fault, of course.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

All her other topics are WHM focused, so yeah, but this one can stand on its own.

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I'm not arguing the merit of her threads, but Celesta's attitude is a bit spammy don't you think? There is seriously no reason to keep making new ones all the time with basically the same rants in every one.

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Originally Posted by Airym

I'm not arguing the merit of her threads, but Celesta's attitude is a bit spammy don't you think? There is seriously no reason to keep making new ones all the time with basically the same rants in every one.

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Yep and she is spamming tank and dps forum too.

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

Do you need to create the same thread again ?
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...mmer-is-coming



Basically, a WHM who can't even see SCH is represented in 90% of the party but it's AST fault, of course.

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its both your faults to be honest more so schs then astas however it is a problem created by both jobs ability need take take shared responsability for healer imbalience. yes i agree its more so sch then asta its not fair saying that its completely sch's fault sense whm and sch where in the game. before Astra where even added to the game

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

Basically, a WHM who can't even see SCH is represented in 90% of the party but it's AST fault, of course.

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Or you look at it from another perspective: WHM and AST toolkit are absolute garbage together, that's why everyone runs SCH+X.

The reality is that SCH has the lowest HPS potential of all three healers, this is including fairy. Any nerf to SCHs potency at some place has to be compensated (it already has been done several times during 4.X because dungeons were just unenjoyable as a SCH). Nerfing SCHs potencies is problematic when they already have the lowest potencies. (and suggesting it is flat out stupid)

SCH+X simply has one major mechanical advantage: Fairy is a second HoT on the tank. WHM+AST just needs more ST heals cast on the tank to keep him alive. You can nerf fairy all you want (alongside buffing SCHs ST toolkit to keep the HPS potential up), it will never change the fact that this second HoT exists on the tank. To change WHM+AST being garbage, you have to either get rid of Noct Ast (to force him into HoTs), or give one of them a (preferably) ability based second HoT. At that point you'd remove the major advantage fairy provides.

Looking at how much of the oGCD toolkit SCh uses, you can savely that it is at no point "strong". People can savely run Selene, because WD is 100% unneeded. Two thirds of your Aetherflow go into Energy Drain - because using Indom/Excog more than once every 1.5 mins is not needed - the underlying issue here is that a fight needs HPS that equals two-third of a single healer, while you get two full healers per fight.

You run SCH+X because WHM+AST is flat out garbage to play for both of them for 100% mechanical, not numerical, reasons.
You run SCH+AST because WHM essentialy is a lower DPS AST that provides not-needed healing.

SE will likely try to "fix" healers by some stupid potency nerf on SCH/AST, which are compensated in 5.X+, and more ability homogenization (i.e. give WHM more barriers). In the end it will change nothing, we've done that twice, and a third time will not change it.

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Originally Posted by Hustensaft

To change WHM+AST being garbage, you have to either change get rid of Noct Ast (to force him into HoTs), or give one of them a (preferably) ability based second HoT.

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Er... what?
If this was strictly true, then the meta would be WHM+Diurnal-AST, or even Dual-WHM.
The problem with Noct AST is that it doesn't compete with SCH, it's shields aren't as powerful, it's utility doesn't enhance them (unlike extending the duration of a HoT) and it doesn't have the fairy for the extra HoT as you mentioned, but that's clearly not the only thing.
Losing the shields entirely would be an outright nerf, especially if there's any really big hits coming in that HoTs can save you from. And if you have too many HoTs running (Medica II, Regen, Asylum, Diurnal Benefic, Diurnal Helios + Collective Unconscious) then you're only wasting all of that healing potency as you're bound to cap HP in no time.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

The problem with Noct AST is that it doesn't compete with SCH, it's shields aren't as powerful,.

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By default AST shields should be stronger (especially with the extra potency from the sect), but if we bring SCH's critical Adlo in to the mix do we get a very powerful shield. Of course SCH brings lots of other stuff too hence why they are one of the preferred pick in duos.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

The problem with Noct AST is that it doesn't compete with SCH, it's shields aren't as powerful, it's utility doesn't enhance them

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Noct AST shields have a higher potency then SCH shields. The only exclusion is a deployed Adlo, but on average ST, Adlo absorbs less then Benific. That the two abilities only affect HoTs is also more reason to actually get rid of Noct Ast, unless you want to redesign both of them.

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Losing the shields entirely would be an outright nerf, especially if there's any really big hits coming in that HoTs can save you from.

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Welcome to the wonderful world of "why absorbs are a very problematic healing mechanic". There's a reason WoW got rid of all but a single absorb spell at one point. Increasing effective HP, esp. on the whole group, will force you to increase damage of encounter mechanic to make you ever run in danger. Once you do that, Absorbs are mandatory to survive.

At the same time absorbs are a HoTs worsed nightmare. Damaged Absorbs will never be healed, whereas HoTs need a long long time to heal. Whatever damage goes through shields, is covered by the weakest heals.

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And if you have too many HoTs running (Medica II, Regen, Asylum, Diurnal Benefic, Diurnal Helios + Collective Unconscious)

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WoW redesigned fights and increased HP pools to actually make room for HoT healing. FFXIVs encounter design is dancey-dancey with lots of damage back to back, where HoTs are inherently useless, followed by a large stretch of nothing where your HoT apply spell already covers half the healing required. Absorbs on the other hand work perfectly with FFXIVs dancey design.

In addition to that, FFXIV HoTs run on a global tick rate (i.e. all HoTs on a single-target happen at the same time), versus WoWs HoTs that all tick indepent (i.e. HoTs provide a much smoother HP curve on much larger HP pools)..
FFXIV healer design is fundamentally flawed. Encounters are shit for HoTs, and Absorbs are generally bad healing spells.