New ToS gives hope for official DPS meters?

But wouldn't the tighter rules prohibit people from harassing others. Thus eliminating the problem entirely?

"In my opinion it's quite the opposite - why would they take this stance on abusive behavior then hand you a tool to use to break it? It's like telling someone not to break your window while handing them a rock that's perfectly shaped for throwing."

Kind of, but also there's now a police man standing there able to react at a moment's provocation. Are you saying someone would still throw a rock and break that window if they knew they'd get instantly punished for it? I'm sure it's a balancing act. But Square-Enix isn't just handing out rocks. They're also installing security cameras. In whatever weird metaphor we're going with, lol.

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

It's the koike incident and it's the exact reason they arne't allowed and the exact behavior everyone who supports parsers claims will never happen. And it's happened in Japanese community, which is a lot kinder than NA so how do you think NA will behave?

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Absolutely. I'm personally content with our current situation of speak no evil, see no evil. Parsing is fundamental to figure out optimal rotations, BiS lists and more but when the common folk gets their hands on it, it can turn sour pretty quick.

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Originally Posted by JackHatchet

But wouldn't the tighter rules prohibit people from harassing others. Thus eliminating the problem entirely?

"In my opinion it's quite the opposite - why would they take this stance on abusive behavior then hand you a tool to use to break it? It's like telling someone not to break your window while handing them a rock that's perfectly shaped for throwing."

Kind of, but also there's now a police man standing there able to react at a moment's provocation. Are you saying someone would still throw a rock and break that window if they knew they'd get instantly punished for it? I'm sure it's a balancing act. But Square-Enix isn't just handing out rocks. They're also installing security cameras. In whatever weird metaphor we're going with, lol.

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Well murder is illegal... but still happens anyways.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Well murder is illegal... but still happens anyways.

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They just tightened up the ToS. Which means they can be a lot more reactive to abuse. Yeah, murder is illegal, but if you bumped up security then murder rates goes down. It's a spectrum--not a binary. Otherwise you'd be arguing that all rules are pointless, because people break rules. And we both know that rules ARE effective.

People just need to grow up a bit with the whole parser issue. Anyone who uses them openly acknowledges that there are those among them that are going to be jerks and hyper judgmental. No one is arguing that isnt the case. The typical argument is that those who are that toxic are few and far between. Most times when parses are used by statics to assess a player, its used as a screening tool where if you are acceptable to the statics standards, youre in, and if not, youre out and theyll just say its not working out.

Now its worth noting that there are some people who are bad at optimization and refuse to learn to optimize. And of those people, there are those who try for raiding statics, get declined, blame parsing as the reason for their decline, and then go on to proclaim how toxic parsers are. Not all who are anti parser are this way, but Ive seen a fair share of that when people are pressed, usually in the form of "They had my fflogs and told me I sucked" or something there of.

The way Ive seen it is parsing shouldnt worry you. Most statics, except the extreme high end picky ones (the ones who look for world firsts and require excellence and understanding of the game to a max extent), arent going to discredit or discount a player for their static based on one single parse. If youre friendly, seem knowledgeable about the fights, and are geared, most will trial you. However, if you have tons of parses showing poor performance, statics will not readily accept you. At which time it is your responsibility as a player to get better. If you dont want to play the game "Like a second job" and "Only want to have fun" thats fine. Youre free to do that, but dont expect statics or other groups to cater to your style of play when you refuse to cater to theirs. People derive fun from a variety of ways in this game. If they play it in a way you dont find fun, dont demand they stop doing it their way for your sake. That means if they want a certain level of gameplay, you step up to the plate or accept you wont be a part of it most likely.

But all that requires a bit of introspection and not being immature about a tool which is tracking your performance. Part of me thinks people can be adults 'bout this stuff, but part of me feels skeptical.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

But all that requires a bit of introspection and not being immature about a tool which is tracking your performance. Part of me thinks people can be adults 'bout this stuff, but part of me feels skeptical.

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For some of us it's not just about or it may not even be about other people being able to see our performance. Back in WoW I played a healer which meant 99% of the time no one cared about my parses as long as I wasn't slacking. Most of the parser drama I saw was dps related and I frankly got so bloody sick of watching it. Just being an observer of that behaviour is enough for me to not want an in-game parser.

I'm not against the existence of parsers. I'm against handing them to any idiot on a silver platter. They're useful tools but they're too easily abused. I played WoW before parsers were commonly used and the community definitely changed for the worse after they became popular. I don't see how it would be any different in FFXIV. The fact that even talking about them on the forums causes so much drama speaks volumes of what would happen if there was an in-game parser.

What about the new ToS gives you any impression that official parsers will make it into the game, OP?

I don't think Yoshi-sama could be any more adamant and clear as to his thoughts about them being implemented into the game. He's aware that players are still using third party tools for parsers, and will continue to use them. Condoning them isn't the same as supporting them, and I believe like RMT, offenders are subject to immediate and permanent ban from the game. So no warning 1, warning 2, ban; or anything like that.

If anything, with the new ToS players are likely going to have to be really careful about spouting off numbers to represent DPS during duties, or anything that can be related to a parser.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Well murder is illegal... but still happens anyways.

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Wow! A bit extreme, don't you think?

The consequence of being banned for using parsers is a lot less severe than murder. So just a weeee bit tougher to regulate its prevention. If people got a slap on the wrist for murder, A LOT more people would do it. I mean holy schite!

I still believe that a personal parser that has the ability to compare to aggregate anonymous data would be pretty cool (like by ilvl and percentiles). I don't think we need a public parser, rather I believe SE could design a few hard trials as badges - "EX Primal, have completed trials of bullet hell 2". Some ultimate/save content could require these badges of completion, naturally increases the quality of the pool without requiring eye spy technology :p. Although I really do miss mods from WoW... the QoL on the UI was really nice (and fun to mess with). I feel SE has done a good job making a great base UI but there are still features that I wish were more interactive/intuitive (or just existed in general lol).

Concern of course I feel when or if that UI mod gate opens then it would also make a parser and boss mod a thing (unless they run the place like an itunes store :D). Other thing to consider though is the boss fighting mods that tell you mechanics and the public parsers.. they exist and seem to be open info on discord and reddit, so its not like they don't exist in the community - people just don't talk about them in game. So it seems like a very "eeeeeeh" restriction/prevention (imo). Even your stream can show them, like big time raid groups, Yoshida having seen them himself, and for the most part nothing happens unless you were shaming someone (which could be a rule either way, if allowed or not - so same result from shaming). Got a bit off topic, but I just have some nostalgia for tweaking the UI to my will lol.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Wow! A bit extreme, don't you think?

The consequence of being banned for using parsers is a lot less severe than murder. So just a weeee bit tougher to regulate its prevention. If people got a slap on the wrist for murder, A LOT more people would do it. I mean holy schite!

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It's more to reference that it's not because something is illegal that it doesn't happen. Driving over the speed limit is illegal but it still happens to most of the populace on a daily basis.

The new ToS doesn’t change anything in regarding to being a jerk about these things.
It’s always been against the rules. Parsers won’t change. There’ll likely never be an official one, and third party ones will need to be treated as adults.