How can we get more in depth character customization?

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Originally Posted by Ruinfeild

Not sure what you mean by DoT's cause I still see them around.

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I think they mean the whole gauge design thing or whatever it's called.

When they were revealing info about 4.0 in that live stream on twitch it was mentioned that they went that route due to players complaining about not being able to manage their dots.

Also there's mmos with actual choice and while some situations/dungeons say certain classes are better for certain things. It's not really forced there however a lot of those mmos are sandboxes and the communities there seem to be able to handle it.

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Originally Posted by Ruinfeild

I would like a source on that quote. I highly doubt that a playerbase found most if not all of these things 'too confusing'.

Also no, the community didn't get rid of STR tanks, SE did. Changing it to gaining damage from VIT (or main stat) was a good move.
[Tanks had a choice to either go full VIT for survivability or go full STR for extra DPS but less survivability. Two things happened:
1. VIT stacking was deemed useless because DPS was everything and healers could just heal them anyway. If they were skilled.
2. TONS of non-raiders players complained about STR tanks big-pulling in dungeons causing wipes because they would just die.

SE got rid of choice when they just simplified it and made VIT do everything.]

Not sure what you mean by DoT's cause I still see them around.
[Fracture, Flaming Arrow, Lead Shot, Phlebotomize, Scourge, and Touch of Death, were all deleted entirely and Aero/Aero II, Bio/Bio II, Combust/Combust II were consolidated into single attacks to make it easier for players with the release of SB. We also lost things like old Cleric Stance because of players complaining.]

Not sure about accuracy. . .I never even noticed it was removed since as a tank main I always cared more about holding threat and surviving. Never had to focus much on accuracy. . .
[But Accuracy was the most important stat as a tank because you needed to know the accuracy cap to hit the boss from the front or else you'd miss lol. You also needed to know the caps for flank and behind.. DPS had the choice of getting full accuracy cap for security or having enough just for flank and back for extra DPS.]

As for PvP as well, I haven't done much of it, at all. A couple dozen times but nothing crazy.
[Well, they broke it.]

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Responses in bold. Maybe I might do it this way more often..

Boy, I wish I could have my own custom build where I get to randomly miss because I don't have enough accuracy.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Boy, I wish I could have my own custom build where I get to randomly miss because I don't have enough accuracy.

:rolleyes:

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Good thing I used my own custom build to do more damage by purposely having less accuracy. The raiders told me no!

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

What if you could select your weapon, Giving you a small handfull of Job Specific weapons and the traits you would normally have for that Job, Then you could select your Role which would give you the bread and butter to accomplish that Role, Then you could select a subjob that would give you access to skills half of your main Job's level. For an example

What ways do you think we can get more in depth character customization?

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Definitely have to appreciate thinking outside the box to change things up. Unfortunately, any system that basically 'borrows' skills whether from another job, or from a list of available skills just isn't going to work. They've tried multiple times now, and I think the forced customization is an intrinsic result of this kind of system.

Even when I think back to single player console games that allow a lot of customization, you might be able to get past encounters in your preferred set up, but even then there was still an optimal composition of jobs and skills to accomplish any given task in the most efficient manner. FF super bosses is a great example of this, as the guides that came out to beat them would always have an optimal set up, or at least what the author felt was the optimal set up. Very relatable to our current savage content, would you not agree?

Customization in this game can't impact the gameplay or you immediately enable the very 'forced customization' you're trying to avoid due to optimization. As we have seen, it is very difficult for SE to balance all the jobs within a given role, and usually takes them well into the current expansion to get existing jobs to an 'acceptable' state with the playerbase. This is a direct challenge from trying to diversify the jobs within a given role while still keeping them playable. Role skills/sub jobs further complicates this issue.

I believe customization in this game outside of aesthetic that also keeps things balanced is extremely difficult to accomplish. The only way around it that I can see is we as the playerbase accept less than optimal customizations to clear content to give the dev team more flexibility, but will admit that my scope of innovation is very limited.

More /change poses and battle/victory emotes?

I remember putting points into dexterity as PLD because I thought it'd make my shield block more often.

honestly with how easy it is for current jobs to keep up buffs and dots
removing the other dots is so unneeded
Dragoon isn't even high risk high reward anymore since BotD doesn't drop ever
Bards dots last 30 seconds now
Drk and War don't do much else so fracture and scourge really didn't need to go

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Drk and War don't do much else so fracture and scourge really didn't need to go

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Ya, the changes that came with SB was a mix of "This is good", "sure why not", and "this makes no sense". The changes felt really uneven, not every class was treated equally.

The role action system feels meh, and after the last and rather silly change it went from meh all the way to pointless. It is a system that by design makes the classes feel less unique, I get the idea though. I even liked the idea of needing to change your skill load-out depending on the encounter, but the sad thing is that some skills were just that much better then the others which resulted in players mostly using the same skills all the time.
But was the right answer to increase your "choices" to everything? No, that just made the entire system pointless.

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Originally Posted by Soraki-Muppe

Ya, the changes that came with SB was a mix of "This is good", "sure why not", and "this makes no sense". The changes felt really uneven, not every class was treated equally.

The role action system feels meh, and after the last and rather silly change it went from meh all the way to pointless. It is a system that by design makes the classes feel less unique, I get the idea though. I even liked the idea of needing to change your skill load-out depending on the encounter, but the sad thing is that some skills were just that much better then the others which resulted in players mostly using the same skills all the time.
But was the right answer to increase your "choices" to everything? No, that just made the entire system pointless.

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I can't even get behind it as far as "meh". As much as I like not being hampered by mechanics forcing poor positionals once every few minutes, and like that I'm not overtuned elsewhere to compensate for niche problems, I just don't like True North being the solution to that. At best, it feels like a cop-out to normal skill-gap that should be worked around, and often seems to owe itself to weird snapshotting of split-AoEs or the like more than being over-ambitious or even being a highly positionals-dependent melee. At worst, I feel like it's been given in compensation for far more fluid and skill-based tools, a la Fracture and ToD, which could be delayed slightly (within an 18s period per ToD at most high-SkS breakpoints, and a few GCDs depending on eventual desync, respectively) which were both needlessly removed with no new native capacity given to compensate for them (or for what used to be Monk's core mechanic, modular control of stance timings to allow for a greater variety of rotational strings).

Arm's Length and Surecast, on the other hand? Those just seems pure bloat, all in order to maintain intentionally bloated "customization" elements. Here, you can now choose to ignore this mechanic, or make this other mechanic easier via Largesse synced with Convalescence, since, frankly, it's not like you'd want to take a WHM anyways. Cleric Stance? It just feels so lackluster given the button-space it takes, and it has zero cohesion with anything?

If Rescue is supposed to really feel at all useful or healer-integral, it should have unique takes on it between healers. Same with Esuna. Same with Largesse. The system feels somewhere between clunky, misdirected, misinformed, and blatantly compromising it what doesn't need or deserve compromise.