Thoughts on the Ascians so far?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm currently on the fence.

As it stands, the Ascians have been confirmed to have been involved in enough schemes so far that the protagonists should realistically ask themselves if Ascians are playing them like a fiddle whenever any new threat emerges. Elidibus is intriguing, especially now that he has possessed the corpse of someone who stands to give him quite a bit of sway and political power. On the other hand, the other four major Ascians we've encountered as of ARR and onwards are no longer in the picture. The stakes don't feel very high. If Elidibus makes a move, it'll probably be Garlemald that suffers the most from his scheming. Meanwhile, there's a good chance that everything will wrap up neatly for everybody else.

In my opinion for the Ascians to truly be an effective threat they need to kill off a major character. Not a secondary character. Not a minor character temporarily elevated to a higher position. Someone who has been a part of the story for a while and isn't expected to die. I know some people will counter that by stating that death for the sake of death is silly, though that isn't what I'm pushing for. What I want to see is realistic, meaningful losses. Powerful and imposing antagonists only seem powerful and imposing when they're allowed to score the occasional victory. Otherwise they just end up standing around making vague threats before having their plans thwarted.

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The only death I can think of that would be very impactful probably would be Alphinaud

Yes I know almost everybody hated him in ARR but he developed quite a bit from the ending of ARR all the way up to the end of the Dragonsong war in HW. so on my end I'm currently fond of Alphy

While some secondary character deaths did make me tear up like Haurchefaunt,a main character would hit harder.

Not saying Alphy should be killed cuz a character death only matters if it's executed very well,but it's the only thing I can think of right now

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm currently on the fence.

As it stands, the Ascians have been confirmed to have been involved in enough schemes so far that the protagonists should realistically ask themselves if Ascians are playing them like a fiddle whenever any new threat emerges.

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Of course they are. Most of the threats only exist due to Ascian involvement anyhow.

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In my opinion for the Ascians to truly be an effective threat they need to kill off a major character. Not a secondary character. Not a minor character temporarily elevated to a higher position. Someone who has been a part of the story for a while and isn't expected to die. I know some people will counter that by stating that death for the sake of death is silly, though that isn't what I'm pushing for. What I want to see is realistic, meaningful losses. Powerful and imposing antagonists only seem powerful and imposing when they're allowed to score the occasional victory. Otherwise they just end up standing around making vague threats before having their plans thwarted.

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The Ascians are a major threat. Not to individuals, but to Hydaelyn and the world.
Most of their work is done in the background. Killing any protagonists is only attempted when it serves their goals - and most of the time it won't do that.

By now the Ascians ought to have figured out that direct confrontation with the WoL or their allies is a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Of course they are. Most of the threats only exist due to Ascian involvement anyhow.



The Ascians are a major threat. Not to individuals, but to Hydaelyn and the world.
Most of their work is done in the background. Killing any protagonists is only attempted when it serves their goals - and most of the time it won't do that.

By now the Ascians ought to have figured out that direct confrontation with the WoL or their allies is a bad idea.

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I wish tho that they'd let us in on some of the Ascians' machinations,not on all of them but enough of them to get us to know what each Ascian think and how each one differ in their approach to Garlemald,beast tribes and Eorzeans.

In short,a bit more of the care they gave to Elidibus.Lahabrea was offed too fast by Thordan before we learn much of anything beyond his ambition and for the so-called "Leader of the Ascians"....he certainly doesn't live up to the title

Personally I am getting super bored of Ascians and Garlemalde. They have been the antagonists since 2010 and it just feels like the story involving them has drug on way beyond reason. I wish we could just finish their part of the story and move on to something else. Same with everything Allagan. There were how many astral and umbral eras, each with their own civilizations and still all we really get is allagan… maybe we get a lil Nym here and there but it feels like 99% of everything is Allagan. SE really needs to step up the creativity.

I miss the games where each expac was its own thing, sure it may reference a past expac or something but this all just feels like one very long and done to death story. We always know the Ascians or the Empire was behind it in one way or another. There is no real mystery and its frankly getting boring.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

Personally I am getting super bored of Ascians and Garlemalde. They have been the antagonists since 2010 and it just feels like the story involving them has drug on way beyond reason. I wish we could just finish their part of the story and move on to something else. Same with everything Allagan. There were how many astral and umbral eras, each with their own civilizations and still all we really get is allagan… maybe we get a lil Nym here and there but it feels like 99% of everything is Allagan. SE really needs to step up the creativity.

I miss the games where each expac was its own thing, sure it may reference a past expac or something but this all just feels like one very long and done to death story. We always know the Ascians or the Empire was behind it in one way or another. There is no real mystery and its frankly getting boring.

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I kinda agree but only with the Ascians part

I think they can do more with Garlemald but mostly if they let us actually explore the empire from the inside.

Like I dunno what situation would get the Warrior of Light/player and Alphinaud to side with the empire in anyway but it'd be interesting if we got inside Garlemald and see how actual Garlean citizens go about their daily lives and whether or not the Garlean society is on board with the empire's conquest on Eorzea.

But I kinda see where you're coming from,the reason Heavensward is so far my favorite part in all of 14 is because the ascian and garlean involvement are kept to a minimum even when they were present.The scale and stakes were smaller than ARR sure since it only concerns the well being of Ishgard specifically but it made Ishgard all the more special to me.It felt like an actual home moreso than the other Eorzean nations cuz the WoL and Alphinaud were more involved with the internal affairs of the nation which helped connecting the player to Ishgard once you start dethroning Thordan,slaying Nidhogg and finally establish a peace between Ishgard and Dravania.

I'd love to see a new enemy even if it's only on a smaller scale cuz Nidhogg,while only aims to destroy Ishgard and only Ishgard,was one of the best villains in XIV for me

They seem nice.

Ascians and the fate of the universe was always my main interest although my excitement has waned over the last 5 years of waiting for more substantial developments on that front. It seemed like they were teasing something big at the end of the 2013 story arc with showing many ascians and name-dropping Zodiark, then our heroes got distracted by a lot of other stuff and forgot about impending dimensional collapse. Apparently Gaius has been focusing more on the ascians than us, focusing on the root of most of the world's problems while we've been going around mopping up the spills. Hopefully tomorrow's patch brings some good progress and revelations to this story.

I feel like we've rushed through too many different stories and keep leaving behind stuff that has more potential or didn't reach a satisfying conclusion. I want to see more from zodiark/ the moon, minfilia-hydaelyn, unukalhai, heart of sabik (what is it?), other ascian overlords that were shown briefly and named but not defeated by us yet. Hopefully the Omega story in tomorrow's patch satisfyingly fills in details about Midgardsormr's history / homeworld / origins. I kinda wish the Tiamat story would progress with her breaking free of the guilt and depression and bindings to go make amends and do positive things, help us destroy ascians if you're so upset that they tricked you into summoning bahamut.

I think we are long overdue for a look in to who they are and what they are up to. I am glad that the liberation arcs are completely done and we are moving on to something else. We need to better understand the the rejoining and the calamities and what strings they like to pull.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

I kinda wish the Tiamat story would progress with her breaking free of the guilt and depression and bindings to go make amends and do positive things, help us destroy ascians if you're so upset that they tricked you into summoning bahamut.

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That would be great. I think it needs to happen at a climax point for something - maybe for the finale of 5.0 or beyond. Sometime when we’re ready to strike a major blow against the Ascians, or maybe need rescuing from them. (And magic dragon telepathy can pick up the distress signal and decide it's time...)

The thing with the Ascians, for me anyway, is that while we have learned a fair amount about them and their schemes, there's still a lot more that seems like we don't know. We don't know specifically what pertains to the resurrection of Zodiark, beyond the fact that it involves weakening Hydaelyn to initiate the "Rejoinings" by sowing the seeds of strife and chaos, primarily behind the scenes. This could "break the boundaries" that have apparently imprisoned Zodiark, certainly, but I think there's a lot more to it than that, as well as to what the true plans of the Ascians are. That said, i have a feeling these last couple patches of the current expansion are going to see the Ascians come into more prominence in the scope of the story, and I suspect they will finally be putting into action all the pieces on the board they've been carefully placing all this time.

As for completely destroying an Ascian, that remains a very difficult and potentially costly endeavor. The ones we already destroyed were careless and underestimated their opponents, which was a factor in their demise. We lost Moenbryda to finish off Nabrieles with her device that uses tremendous reserves of aether, and we got lucky to have appropriate tools in the form of Nidhogg's eyes in our/Thordan's possession to dispose of Igeyorhm and Lahabrea. I doubt that Elidibus and the remaining higher-ranking Ascians are going to be so reckless, and will be far more dangerous to deal with once they enact their plans in earnest.