9/15 LuckyBancho Census (with UwU numbers)

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

It isn't that NA/EU don't know how to beat raids or JP has an abundance of superior players. They simply approach it differently. Japanese culture is heavily group influenced. Someone lagging behind is the responsibility of the group as a whole. NA/EU, by contrast, is individualistic. If you make a mistake, you're impeding the group and continuous mistakes may lead to a replacement or disband. Many JP players have posted on reddit citing the number of players with Savage clears have no business getting said clears if based purely on skill.

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Yeah I saw your post. To me, there's more to knowing how to beat raids than just skill. The teamwork, patience, responsibility and all that good stuff all plays a big part. So if NA/EU don't want to do that or don't like that but happen to be skilled, in the end they ultimately still don't know how to beat raids.

You'd be hard-pressed to convince a random person, FFXIV player or not, that NA/EU isn't as good at raiding compared to JP when 17 JP servers have over 10% clears when ours is a measly 1 server. EU also 1 server. We as a region, are clearly missing something big. I mean, NA is half the population as it is.. we either lack the qualities that really helps the JP win or NA/EU just massively dislike raiding as a whole.

Well, you can't say we are bad either, you can only say less people do it. It looks more like there's much more expectation to raid in JP land.

I said a bit ago I think this is a bigger problem, because I feel SE plans content expecting a lot more people do savage. So they do a lot less actual optional content, leading NA and EU to complain about content droughts. I don't think they get that you can't just expect us to do things through peer pressure or because its expected; they need to get some non-Japanese input on the design aspects of things too.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Yeah I saw your post. To me, there's more to knowing how to beat raids than just skill. The teamwork, patience, responsibility and all that good stuff all plays a big part. So if NA/EU don't want to do that or don't like that but happen to be skilled, in the end they ultimately still don't know how to beat raids.

You'd be hard-pressed to convince a random person, FFXIV player or not, that NA/EU isn't as good at raiding compared to JP when 17 JP servers have over 10% clears when ours is a measly 1 server. EU also 1 server. We as a region, are clearly missing something big. I mean, NA is half the population as it is.. we either lack the qualities that really helps the JP win or NA/EU just massively dislike raiding as a whole.

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Or we are simply less willing to carry people through content. You cannot simply dismiss that with a blanket statement "NA/EU doesn't know how to beat raids." Every attribute you listed could be argued from an individualistic perspective, i.e., NA/EU players put a greater emphasis on their own time or expect people to pull their own weight. If five players are highly skilled yet three aren't, those five players don't magically not know how to beat raids because they decide not to waste their time trying to carry the remaining three. It isn't their responsibility nor are they in any way obligated to help. Likewise, the JP mentality isn't wrong either. It simply boils down to different values and perception.

We aren't missing anything. NA/EU simply have a different mindset. If JP adopted ours, their clear rates would plummet instantly just like the reverse would happen if we adopted theirs. Furthermore, like I said in my initial post, NA/EU players don't approach content the same way. On average, if we dislike something, we aren't going to do it. JP sees content more as something they should do because the developers made it. This is why our two most populated servers are roleplay servers whereas JP's is a raid server.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Or we are simply less willing to carry people through content.

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no, i dont think enough people even try it to be carried. I don't think raid culture is that adversarial yet; you wouldn't even bother looking for a pug replacement at all if you were like that. I think part of the reason i argue against making the game more difficult is that the "i dont carry mindset" could get a lot worse with more people doing it. I mean now if you do raids you really do invest a bit in it.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

I'll quote myself from the reddit post.

"JP puts a higher priority on clearing even if it involves carrying bad players through. NA/EU are more concerned with FFlogs and are more likely to disband or leave if people perform poorly.

It isn't that NA/EU don't know how to beat raids or JP has an abundance of superior players. They simply approach it differently. Japanese culture is heavily group influenced. Someone lagging behind is the responsibility of the group as a whole. NA/EU, by contrast, is individualistic. If you make a mistake, you're impeding the group and continuous mistakes may lead to a replacement or disband. Many JP players have posted on reddit citing the number of players with Savage clears have no business getting said clears if based purely on skill.

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This has to be the post of the day for me... you have succinctly nailed it, spot on.

Even from FFXI, this was the method of approach and innate mindset. The effort to be patient (with a clear view that "we are going to finish this together") was so evident, it was palatable; and this was how skilled players imparted their knowledge to the few players who lagged behind.

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Originally Posted by Ramesses

This has to be the post of the day for me... you have succinctly nailed it, spot on.

Even from FFXI, this was the method of approach and even back then the effort to be patient (with a clear view that "we are going to finish this together") was so evident, it was palatable.

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sometimes i think this is caused by the duty finder and simply not needing others so it is more self centred than group centred. also why players expect personal rewards from everything they do..

in XI or older games it was more about bettering the group as a whole than bettering yourself. if you went to sky and personally got nothing it wasnt an issue as generally some people in the group got something and thus the group as a whole was successful.

in xiv if you join a mount farm and say 5 mounts drops but you dont get one then its generally considered by many a wasted evening as they personally got nothing from it...

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

-During 4.35, 50,000 players unsubbed thinking the WoW expansion would actually be good but it wasn't so they're all back now already.

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-50k = mai to july... with Xpac annoucned for 14 august... why unsub so soon? ...

July => today + 50k
criteria to be activ in this scan :
getting at least 1 more level on 1 classe/job, or 1 minion or 1 mount. With HoH 12 days before the july scan, and Pagos early august (10th ? not sure) And Rathalos (1 mount if i am correct). . . Easy to be count even if you go wow after.

Btw, i also just watched content from may 19th to july 15th.
HoH could give minion/mount, but 12 days not all people gets in.
only the patch 4.3, and i dont have memory of numerus minions/mount to get in (i remember mainly primal mount, and tribal rewards. both are not what people does most).


I think, those numbers mainly show what lucky banshos scan show from nearly the begining of FFXIV : population dont grew, dont lower. it stagnate... and most move in the scans are more due to different content more than anything else.

And remember, some people may be activ during this period, and not in the luckybansho count, and people that left end of july, but did loot a minion after july 15th count as activ, even if didnt resub yet...

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

*snip*

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With the way luckybansho says who is activ or not, yes, it impacts. But i dont think he says his numbers are perfect.
It is hard to define how they impact statistics.
Have to watch luckybansho's stats for activity (not kills of sadic/ultimate content) for the long time. what on one year. compare 1 year with the previous, what from the servers opening etc. Not focus on specific scans

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

no, i dont think enough people even try it to be carried. I don't think raid culture is that adversarial yet; you wouldn't even bother looking for a pug replacement at all if you were like that. I think part of the reason i argue against making the game more difficult is that the "i dont carry mindset" could get a lot worse with more people doing it. I mean now if you do raids you really do invest a bit in it.

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I said as much, actually. NA/EU players are less inclined to participate in things which don't interest them. That being said, Savage and Ultimate are far different than other content. A big reason people have such difficulty approaching harder content is due to the enormous gap between tiers. When a game handholds you throughout then abruptly spikes in difficulty, it catches people off guard. Nevertheless, I don't think it's entirely unfair veteran players who put forth an effort to improve themselves expect some degree of competence from their party. In fact, the ease of difficult can equally encourage this mindset. "This dungeon's so damn easy, they're no excuse not to DPS as a healer." It goes both ways.

WoW is also a factor. Consider that a significant amount of (I’m assuming) would-be raiders here instead stick to Azeroth. So a lot of people/groups who could succeed here simply aren’t here, while this game commands a presence in JP akin to what WoW has in the west.

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Originally Posted by Kazgrel

WoW is also a factor. Consider that a significant amount of (I’m assuming) would-be raiders here instead stick to Azeroth. So a lot of people/groups who could succeed here simply aren’t here, while this game commands a presence in JP akin to what WoW has in the west.

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Well... no

Before FFXIV : ARR, we saw people from top world guilde doing the run to be world first on new raid. then nearly disappear for the game, just coming doing fast main daily things (when expansion has... not the case for most) and the weekly kill to have the stuff for the next raid. They have a really high play time for the first weeks and then, low... their game time go to others MMORPG or even other games.

Some people can do both FFXIV ultimate content, and mythic raid content.

Less a real thing with legion, M+ allow them to compete on wow 52 weeks a year. but not all do this (some just focus on loot with M+). A mythic raid is 20 people, only 8 is needed to do FFXIV content...

WoW and FFXIV are fightning each other on the "MMORPG with subscription" market. but many players does both. We can complain that FFXIV is empty. And probably FFXIV consume even less time than WoW. But it is not so hard to play both game... (just have to pay 2 time sub, but lets see people with 2 FFXIV or 2 wow sub... it is the same than 1 wow + 1 ffxiv sub)