You know when it says it's prevents healing by magic, does this cover abilities as well? Because it seems that SCH could work on this content as the Aetherflow actions are not magic, and neither is Fairy Regen since the change so surely healers are not going to be completely ignored for this?
Any point to bringing a healer in Rathalos EX?
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07-17-2018, 08:16 AMKurando
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07-17-2018, 01:12 PMShirolumi
This is something new. I’m excited. They wont do this for all future fights.
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07-17-2018, 10:16 PMExiled_Tonberry
You can bring anything and win. Do you really think SE designed content where healers won't be able to clear? C'mon now.
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07-18-2018, 04:59 AMRisvertasashiPer the topic title. It's less "healers can't win." More "what's the point?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
Are we going to see most PFs for this locked to 4 DPS? That's what I'm worried about. I hope the debuff is only a few seconds, and not something like a deep dungeon floor wide thing...
Hard to say. Incurable in Kefka definitely blocks all healing. But ability-based healing has been used to get around spell-based debuffs before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurando
Unfortunately the reddit translations usually aren't accurate enough to have any confidence in this kind of distinction - if it was even specifically mentioned. -
07-18-2018, 07:06 AMZojha
I'd certainly hope there's no point in bringing a healer there.
Because bringing a healer can only have two points:
1. You absolutely need one because there's too much unavoidable damage you just cannot survive otherwise
2. To trivialize encounters by undoing the consequences of mistakes in encounters where damage is avoidable, i.e. a consequence of a mistake
It'd be a very refreshing change of pace if the first point would not be the case and it would obviously not be a good thing if the second point was the case. I must admit, for the first time in a long while, a piece of content actually caught my interest for reasons other than the rewards. I bet they'll botch it somehow. They're typically not good at doing things outside their usual formula. We'll see soon enough, I guess. -
07-18-2018, 08:02 AMKeridwyn
Here's hoping that there's some use for us. I mean MHW isn't devoid of support builds (Speed Eating + Wide Range 5 right?) And of course everyone ignore that hunting horns with health buffs and palico gadgets exist. I am hoping this is a timed debuff that renders healing null and void during parts of the fight but not the whole thing.
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07-18-2018, 09:59 AMErakir
Yeah I mean, it's not like Monster Hunter has no support builds, and that the only way to sustain is with mega potions. That's a flat out lie. Hell one of the first things you get access to is the health booster, and a good player saves lives constantly with lifepowders. Everyone does damage, but you sure as heck can bring defensive safety options at the cost of damage.
There's tons of ways to make healing safer but not required in a fight. You just have to limit it as well in some capacity, and it takes balancing. Imagine only having access to cure and cure 2, but with something like 5-6x mana cost. Now you're really thinking of whether you want to dump that cure 2 or if the person will get away with a mega potion. That's far from the only way to try it, too. Even if they disabled everyone's healing entirely and gave healers a pet bar with a 30-60s CD lustrate equivalent, that's something. Having extra potions for yourself if on a healer would be something, too. Or giving your potions a small wide-range effect. It doesn't have to be much to feel like you bring at least something to the table.
I'm not saying it's easy to adjust the system as such, but it's not like it's impossible to make a healer bring pros along with the cons of reduced damage output, but still not be required. Whether they have the capabilities to do so is another question, but I sincerely hope they're not thinking of making a huge crossover event and then say "What? You don't have a DPS leveled? Well, really you're just...not wanted in this content at ALL, you bring absolutely no redeeming qualities over a DPS". That is NOT the best way to incentivize others to level another job. We talk about class balance already and what can happen when a job is deemed 'useless' - this is a further level. This is a worry that you are literally worth 50% or less of the other players, and that is a completely fair worry for someone to have whether you think it's novel/neat or not.
It comes down to the same thing it always has in terms of classes. Wanting to make sure you bring something to the table - even if you're not the ideal setup, you have *a* cool or useful thing.
Yea sure I've got DPS leveled, I'm covered no matter what. However, even if it ends up being fun as heck to play it's not a design philosophy I can support when you have an established playerbase and an event that has some of the most excitement of any event they've done. I wouldn't be satisfied if they just boosted healer damage during it and left it at that, but I suppose that'd be a potential answer to this issue. Regardless, we'll see how it turns out in a few weeks.
Edit: To be clear, I'm not particularly worried. This thread houses a valid concern, but I don't think it'll come to pass as I believe they'll have something in play to not make you feel bad for coming on a healer or tank, given how much effort they've already spent in modifying the playstyle of this fight. But we won't know till we see it. -
07-18-2018, 10:19 AMKDSilver
This content has not been developped with only how fights FFXIV works in general.
Besides, they also mentionned that they were afraid that if the healer dies (since they would be alone), it would be the end (outside of situation where you'd have a smn or a rdm).
Bring every comp you want it doesn't really matter.
This allows to have a new approach of a battle in FFXIV outside of dungeons and classic extreme fights.
I think it's great, we needeed something new. -
07-18-2018, 01:36 PMIlenya
-Healing magic nerfed for fight.
-No aggro tables.
How long until some DPS starts blaming healers and tanks for them dying because they didn't dodge? -
07-18-2018, 02:35 PMDuskaneThey can heal themselves there is a potion duty action like Vril in lackshimi or gravity in o2/sQuote:
Originally Posted by Ilenya
If you want to play healer just be healer
Its going by MH philosophy where there are no roles you're just fighting a monster yes monster hunter has some cases of support but everyone still should be hitting the monster and not corner horning or spamming life powder.
Healer utility still be nice shield,Cards and rathalos might even give players fireblight and esuna might be needed.