Samurai question

so tldr ignore guren unless on aoe, burst windows or world first race :P

I'm not sure why you'd want to ignore it. It might only be a slight dps gain on ST, but it's no harder to use than shinten. Just a quick button press in between cooldowns. Heck, the opening rotation for Sam sets it up for you to use it right after your first Hagakure. Unless you're playing on PS4 and are worried about having to swap to it.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

I also have a mixed feeling about Foul for instance (not AoE wise, perfectly fine on this regard), but 715 potency (650+10% from enochian) every 30sec when I literally spam FireIV doing 554 potency (280x1.8x+1.1). It's not even one extra FireIV. (altough I'm not including casting time.

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You don't compare it to Fire 4. You compare it to any other option in Ice phase where you have to wait on an MP tick after refreshing Thunder, outside having a TCloud proc. Which would be Blizzard 1 or Scathe

180 vs 100/200 vs 650.

Seigan is barely a single potency-per-kenki higher, than Shinten and yet it will separate parses, too. In group play, Guren's benefit also has a lot to do with how quickly all that damage can be dealt. You can fit that 800 potency into a single 5-stack-Embolden, Trick Attack, Battle Voice, Brotherhood/Hypercharge, Chain Stratagem, etc., more easily than 2 Shinten alongside the Kaiten, Hagakure, MKSS, etc. of your opening burst.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Seigan is barely a single potency-per-kenki higher, than Shinten and yet it will separate parses, too. In group play, Guren's benefit also has a lot to do with how quickly all that damage can be dealt. You can fit that 800 potency into a single 5-stack-Embolden, Trick Attack, Battle Voice, Brotherhood/Hypercharge, Chain Stratagem, etc., more easily than 2 Shinten alongside the Kaiten, Hagakure, MKSS, etc. of your opening burst.

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I've yet to see a considerable number of reports where Seigan made a bigger difference than an extra DCrit Iai3.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I've yet to see a considerable number of reports where Seigan made a bigger difference than an extra DCrit Iai3.

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Honestly I thought seigan would have gotten a buff when they did the Sam changes. Because it docent amount to much really.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Honestly I thought seigan would have gotten a buff when they did the Sam changes. Because it docent amount to much really.

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Same. Even just 10 potency would have at least raised the efficiency spread from 12, 13.33, 16 to 12, 14, 16, a simpler and arguably "prettier" spread. Given the massive bonus attached to Merciful Eyes, now, though, it'd probably need closer to 240 (efficiency 16, same as Guren) to be an attractive choice in fights with few raid AoEs subvertable, especially if without a NIN (who can just pad enmity over you) or MNK (who the tank or NIN would have to deal with anyways, covering you, as their potency loss for threat-dropping is massive).

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

You don't compare it to Fire 4. You compare it to any other option in Ice phase where you have to wait on an MP tick after refreshing Thunder, outside having a TCloud proc. Which would be Blizzard 1 or Scathe

180 vs 100/200 vs 650.

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Your' right, that was a bad comparison.

The point still is that some skill just kinda grant small benefit. It may be a lot over the course of a fight. But sometime everything isn't just about numbers.

For instance, Deathflare from summoner is fun to execute because you literally spam very little numbers over the course of a fight. So the burst is welcome and satisfying. Same for demi bahamut (altough we don't see much with this one)


The SAM case and NIN to some extent are just bleh too.