is it time to allow Collectibles on the market board?

I honestly don't see a problem with it. People already buy levekits made by other people and use melds and crafting rotation macros made by other people. As-is most people don't actually bother to learn the classes and just slap a macro on so it hardly demonstrates ability with the classes. If anything it would be another potential market and maybe cause more people to actually get into crafting by having it be easier (plus less people would need to leave runs early because their gear breaks and they can't repair it..).

Yes, they should be. Then people who want to make money collecting them could do that, and people who want to make money some other way and spend it to level gathering could. That is how an actual economy works, after all. Rather than this silly game economy where every single bloody thing has its own currencies that are totally useless for anything else.

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Originally Posted by F_Maximillian

I honestly don't see a problem with it. People already buy levekits made by other people and use melds and crafting rotation macros made by other people. As-is most people don't actually bother to learn the classes and just slap a macro on so it hardly demonstrates ability with the classes. If anything it would be another potential market and maybe cause more people to actually get into crafting by having it be easier (plus less people would need to leave runs early because their gear breaks and they can't repair it..).

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This is why I'm in full support of this proposal:

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Originally Posted by Talraen

No, and in fact I have a counter-proposal: is it time to require crafting leve turn-ins to actually be created by the person turning them in?

Come to think of it, in all seriousness, can we just have all 5.0 crafting leves use collectables as turn ins? I want to see the lazy people squirm!

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and I would like to add the addendum that they should retro-code all class quest turn-ins to be unique untradeable items.

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Originally Posted by Rowde

and I would like to add the addendum that they should retro-code all class quest turn-ins to be unique untradeable items.

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Did you notice how much easier the items got to craft on level in Stormblood when they did that?

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Originally Posted by F_Maximillian

I honestly don't see a problem with it. People already buy levekits made by other people and use melds and crafting rotation macros made by other people. As-is most people don't actually bother to learn the classes and just slap a macro on so it hardly demonstrates ability with the classes. If anything it would be another potential market and maybe cause more people to actually get into crafting by having it be easier (plus less people would need to leave runs early because their gear breaks and they can't repair it..).

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This is what I was thinking as well. I've already seen people directly sell leve kits through Party Finder for real money and Gil. I've seen FCs power level others and I powerleveled my alts even though this character is an omni-crafter and gatherer (to help with Company Seals).

The lock on collectibles seems a bit pointless as you can generally buy better gear than you can get with scrips.

I wanted to open up collectibles to start a new market and hopefully increase the number of crafters on my low pop server.

Some of the people on this thread against unlocking collectibles seem to think that crafting is sacred and something a person does all on their own. It's not, often times crafting is as much a group activity as combat.

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Originally Posted by Rowde

and I would like to add the addendum that they should retro-code all class quest turn-ins to be unique untradeable items.

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Actually, I'm going to go further. Make all class quests and levequest turn in after 50 require collectables of the highest collectability rating possible. Anything less and they won't accept it. My omnicrafter FC mate is right. By just buying the items or levekits, I'm not really learning the ins and outs of the crafting classes. So do that and force out maximum collectability (and also turn off all experience gains from it except for that), as well as making Moogle and the new crafting beast tribe work the same way... yeah, then people who level crafters nowadays will learn how that stuff works more likely. Also make it so it's impossible to use macros in crafts. To encourage people to understand how the abilities work.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Actually, I'm going to go further. Make all class quests and levequest turn in after 50 require collectables of the highest collectability rating possible. Anything less and they won't accept it. My omnicrafter FC mate is right. By just buying the items or levekits, I'm not really learning the ins and outs of the crafting classes. So do that and force out maximum collectability (and also turn off all experience gains from it except for that), as well as making Moogle and the new crafting beast tribe work the same way... yeah, then people who level crafters nowadays will learn how that stuff works more likely. Also make it so it's impossible to use macros in crafts. To encourage people to understand how the abilities work.

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By time you're levelling the fifth one, not using a macro to do routine grinding is not teaching me anything except boredom and annoyance. I'm not sure how making it more hostile to do is going to help matters a whole lot.

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Originally Posted by illgot

Some of the people on this thread against unlocking collectibles seem to think that crafting is sacred and something a person does all on their own. It's not, often times crafting is as much a group activity as combat.

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I have no issue with crafting as a group activity, but it's far too easy to cheese your way through it with Gil and borrowed macros already. This stands in stark contrast to combat jobs, which absolutely cannot be played well without putting in some effort. I personally feel this isn't a good situation. It diminishes the experience for players (it's basically just a series of mindless hoops if you level via purchased Levequest items), and it harms the economy by opening the floodgates to people who have absolutely no interest in crafting, but want the money and items it can bring.

For this reason, I think there should be a series of road blocks that force people to actually progress as crafters in order to achieve max level. Part of that would be eliminating the ability to purchase turn-in items of any kind, Levequests or otherwise. Another part would probably be altering the macro system. I'd love to see regular macros eliminated entirely from crafting, but have an 'Planned Synth' option introduced alongside Quick Synthesis. It would have some conditions placed on it, like Quick Synthesis, to ensure that it only replaces regular crafting once an item is relatively trivial to craft (say, once you've HQ'd an item on your own, and/or once you over-gear the item by a certain amount). But, it would replace the macro system for crafting - and eliminate the need to have stupid shit like /wait commands in there.

Would this make crafting less convenient? Absolutely. But in my mind, it would bring crafters more in line with combat classes, in that success would require a real degree of effort. And, coupled with a long-needed system allowing items to be transferred / shared between alts, it wouldn't needlessly impede someone who was leveling crafters for the second, third, etc. time.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

By time you're levelling the fifth one, not using a macro to do routine grinding is not teaching me anything except boredom and annoyance. I'm not sure how making it more hostile to do is going to help matters a whole lot.

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The problem is, for combat classes macros are inefficient and an active hinderance (except in very specific scenarios), but crafting benefits greatly from macros (going against the whole point of what SE were going for with macros anyway). That's why I proposed that (because I don't know how else we can make macros inefficient for crafting outside of that), to make it more in line with how macros are for combat.

And yes, as a lot of my stuff was bought through, I also think they should reset all my crafters to level 1, without compensation for the money I spent (indeed, I'd even go so far as to put me in a 500 billion gil deficit, delete my house, lock me out of all my FC functions, etc). Consider it a punishment for thinking I could buy my way to success. Oh, and also reset all my GC ranks, delete all my items and currencies, you name it.

If they are sellable on the marketboard, then what is even the point of collectables? The House of Splendors could have just ask for HQ items. The entire point of collectables is make or gather the item yourself.