Config Settings/In-game Config Update

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

Really, I don't know why you think an external config program would make things faster, because it wouldn't. In fact it actually slows things down.

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Because when you look at the external program for the first time, before starting the game, you can set it up according to what you think your PC can handle, for example turning off AO, instead of logging in with everything maxed and having 1fps.

It never hurts having both, both write to the same .cfg file anyway. It can even be part of the login UI as I already said.

And one more click to close the config program doesn't warrant a separate point on the list, else you could start counting how many clicks/keypresses you need to reach the config ingame >_>;;

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Because when you look at the external program for the first time, before starting the game

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Stop right there. That's exactly the opposite of what usually happens. People don't look for an external configuration program before they start the game. They just start the game first and then look to change the settings afterwards if the defaults aren't to their liking.

And yes, actually it does hurt to have things in an external program because that's not what people naturally expect. Pretty much every other PC game does everything in-game, so to do things externally is highly unusual, and causes significant confusion for new players. I can't even count the number of times I've seen someone in FFXI or FFXIV ask how to change settings, only to have to explain to them that the game has an external configuration program that's separate from the game itself. It's just not intuitive or user-friendly to have a separate program for configuration purposes.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

And one more click to close the config program doesn't warrant a separate point on the list, else you could start counting how many clicks/keypresses you need to reach the config ingame >_>;;

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Actually, I would count that, too. A good, well designed UI should allow you to use as few clicks as is conceivably possibly to accomplish whatever task the UI was designed to accomplish. If there's even one unnecessary click, then the UI has room for improvement.

Rhianu, I am not against them moving everything inside the client, I think you misunderstood that. I want to have BOTH. There are enough f2p games who have the possibility to change settings from the patcher/login UI AND ingame.

I agree with you on having less clicks = better.

Oh and I do - preconfiguring before starting that is, and I'm sure there are enough people who do the same.

Having two separate methods of configuration would be redundant. Redundancy is also something to be avoided in UI design.

And sure, maybe some people mess around with the configuration settings before they start a game, but most people generally don't, the reason being that you don't know how things will run on the default settings the first time, so any changes you make would be like shooting in the dark. You don't really know how it'll impact the game.

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

the reason being that you don't know how things will run on the default settings the first time

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Oh I do. Because I build my systems myself and know their limitations. I think we should just agree to disagree on this one, I don't want to fill another page with this.

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

Restarting the game is still faster than exiting the game, starting up a separate program, changing the setting(s) you want, closing that program, and then starting the game up again.

Without an external config program:
1. Change Settings
2. Exit Game
3. Start Game

With an external config program:
1. Exit Game
2. Start Up Config Program
3. Change Settings
4. Exit Config Program
5. Start Game

Really, I don't know why you think an external config program would make things faster, because it wouldn't. In fact it actually slows things down.

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You're uh.. why are you so set against having both?

And it does make things faster. Here, lemme fiddle with your chart a little...


Without an external config program:
1. Start Game
2. Wait for game to load [Variable time, may be some time depending on various factors. Even the best-coded games can have long initial load times and there is no way it won't be a 'noticeable' load period at the absolute minimum, on a good system]
3. Change Settings
4. Exit Game
5. Start Game
6. Wait for game to load

With an external config program (And starting the game first):
1. Start Game (presumably? This whole bit of the example is forgetting the possibility in the next scenario)
2. Wait for game to load
3. Exit Game
4. Start Up Config Program (instant)
5. Change Settings
6. Exit Config Program (instant)
7. Start Game
8. Wait for game to load

Yes, the second example is slower, obviously. You loaded the game first. BUT, and this what you aren't acknowledging:

With an external config program and not launching the game first:
1. Start Up Config Program
2. Change Settings
3. Exit config program
4. (Optional) Start Game
5. (Only if 4) Wait for game to load.

See? That is why I'm in favour of an external program and an in-game config, especially in the face of there already being one (and thus why I'm opposed to removing non-restart options from the external config). In scenario 3, because I knew the changes I wanted to make, I didn't have to start the game and wait for it to load twice. Further, I can not load the game at all if I don't want to - an unlikely possibility but still possible, and very convenient in the event.

Also...

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

And I've never seen any game except for FFXI and FFXIV that had an external config program, so your claim that such is the fashion these days is completely false.

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In order of age (roughly):
- Ragnarök Online (admittedly not recent at all, but significant in the genre and still operating)
- Final Fantasy XI
- Phantasy Star Universe
- Sins of a Solar Empire (sort of)
- Recettear
- Final Fantasy XIV
- Batman: Arkham Asylum
- Chantelise
- Phantasy Star Online 2 (Alpha 2) - (added since Bahn confirmed as much - thanks!)
(And I wouldn't be surprised if Batman: Arkham City had one and all, play it though I have not)

That's just off the top of my head the ones I'm certain about. I'm sure I could find more in my game library alone if I went hunting, and recent at that. I realise some of those are pretty old, but some aren't, and you did say never... At the very least Arkham and PSO 2 undermine your getting to suggest I'm being dishonest with your 'completely false'.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Oh I do. Because I build my systems myself and know their limitations. I think we should just agree to disagree on this one, I don't want to full another page with this.

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Oops. Point and good idea. Sorry I started writing this before noticing your post (or, hell, this whole page >.>) so.. yeah, goodo, won't be posting on the argument again - but my voice is still with having both and not stripping the config program of its current functions, but rather just adding everything possible to the client as well.

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Originally Posted by Fensfield

I wonder if Phantasy Star Online 2 has one.. again, wouldn't really surprise me. 'Seems to be their design philosophy. Doesn't really count toward the argument though.

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PSO2 Alpha 2 has an external config program, but some settings can be changed within the client. I have a hard time navigating all the kanji during the alpha since I can't tell WHAT settings can be changed within the client, but yeah, it went from *everything* needing to be changed in the external config in PSU to being able to change certain settings from the external config AND within the game for PSO2.

Before you ask - the Alpha 2 agreement allows us to freely talk about the game. They have some rules on screenshots and video (make sure to put a copyright notice, etc) but that's it.

Regardless of whether the configuration options are available in-game or not, you need to always, always, always have a configuration available outside of the game itself. If a player cannot get the game to run at all, how are they supposed to change things in order to fix it?

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Originally Posted by Raldo

Regardless of whether the configuration options are available in-game or not, you need to always, always, always have a configuration available outside of the game itself. If a player cannot get the game to run at all, how are they supposed to change things in order to fix it?

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Beh, I should have thought to say that and all o.O

Cities XL 2011 did that to me a while ago - it got locked at a refresh rate my monitor couldn't display so I couldn't see in-game to fix the bloody thing. I had a right game repairing that.

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Originally Posted by Fensfield

Oops. Point and good idea. Sorry I started writing this before noticing your post (or, hell, this whole page >.>) so.. yeah, goodo, won't be posting on the argument again

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Eh, I wasn't telling everyone to stop posting about this, just saying I don't want to fill pages and pages with the same back and forth discussion.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

If a player cannot get the game to run at all, how are they supposed to change things in order to fix it?

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Good point. I remember some people had to turn shadows off to be able to run FFXIV at all (game would crash otherwise)