Idea: Class split idea for all jobs

Arcanist was the "test subject" and it failed. They want to go one further in the opposite direction and retroactively remove the classes completely. So GLA would be axed and you would just start off as PLD etc. IDK if they will do it, but it was mentioned as a possible change, with the change also opening up weapon types to broader use.

Except they can't remove the existing classes completely because the classes are fundamentally tied into not only the game's storyline but gameplay, it's not just a simple matter of changing a class's name to a Job from level 1.

Using your GLA example, the GLA's Guild is the Colosseum, which is a fundamental part of Ul'dah's story and lore. Just changing GLA to PLD would require a whole series of new quests would have to be written to 'explain' how a new adventurer is suddenly a 'free PLD' where as the game's storyline currently states outright that the skills of the Sultansworn are a tightly guarded secret and that they're only now passing on their knowledge to a select few veteran (not new) GLAs. Then there are all the enemies that have the class as well have to suddenly have their class name changed to reflect it for consistency, which again does not work when it's a Job that is supposedly rare (half the Jobs are outright stated as being forbidden or forgotten, like WHM). See my point? Pull one loose thread and the whole thing unravels, it's just not worth the effort on SE's part.

Hence, new Jobs added to the game will continue to be classless but the existing classes will have to remain as they're the Armoury System's very foundation (hence you won't see a FFXI-style system of Job and weapon type being separate and being able to equip multiple weapon types to a single Job).

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

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Thats easy to fix. GLA upgrades to PLD automatically when the soul crystal is obtained through the quest much like stone I, II, aero I, II etc. The soul crystal is no longer an item, and is just lore exposition, and the classes and jobs are only tied to lore and not gameplay.

Frankly, I think they could pull this off easily.

First, remove traits for classes and give them to jobs. This way, you could have the same basic skill that would act differently depending on the job.
Second, remove bonus points, they are meaningless. No more "I need to split between INT and MND, my job is ruined !"
And third, just reorganise the order at which you learn class and job skills to better separate them :

For example, imagine if GLA would learn these skills :

• Fast Blade (Unchanged)
• Fight or Flight (Unchanged)
• Savage Blade (Enmity removed)
• Riot Blade (Down to level 6)
• Shield Stance (Renamed Shield Oath for GLA at level 10)
• Total Eclipse (Down to level 15)
• Shield Lob (Up to level 18, enmity removed)
• Shield Bash (Up to level 26)
• Rage Of Halone (Up to level 30, enmity removed)
• Sword Stance (Renamed Sword Oath for GLA at level 38)
• Tempered Will (Unchanged)
• Goring Blade (Down to level 46)
• Royal Authority (Down to level 48)
• Circle Of Scorn (Enmity removed)

You could reorganise PLD's skill like this :

• Flash (Up to level 30)
• Sentinel (Down to level 35)
• Spirits Within (Up to level 40)
• Shield Swipe (Up to level 45)
• Hallowed Ground (Unchanged)
• Sheltron (Unchanged)
• Bulwark (Up to level 54)
• Divine Veil (Unchanged)
• Clemency (Unchanged)
• Cover (Up to level 60)
• ...and every skill above 60 wouldn't be changed

On top of that, you remove all traits from GLA and give these to PLD :

• Enhanced vitality I (Unchanged)
• Enhanced Enmity I (Give enmity bonus to Savage Blade, Shield Lob and Rage Of Halone, level 30)
• Enhanced vitality II (Unchanged)
• Enhanced Enmity II (Give enmity bonus to Circle Of Scorn, level 50)
• ...and every trait above 50 wouldn't be changed

This may seem complicated, but, technically, at level 60 and 70, it would give the exact same PLD we already have. A level 50 PLD would be stronger, but mainly more interesting by already having its 3 combos.

But, on top of that, a GLA would basically only have one real tanking skill, "Shield Stance", that would be enough to tank every content before obtaining the job crystal when paired with the tank role skills, allowing this core kit to fit an hypothetic DPS job added to GLA.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Yoshi had already stated that he ended up not liking the way ACN split into two jobs, so I can't see it happening to other classes.

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But he makes that assumption over a near worst-possible test case, one in which fatal flaws were designed in -- obviously not with the intention to fail, but each certainly implemented intentionally.

SCH and SMN didn't need to share abilities or traits, which he implied at the time was something of the Achilles heel of split-job designs. That was done intentionally then and has since been largely undone. Even traits prior to level 30 are now replaced between SMn and SCH, for instance.

Heck, he didn't even need to cause them to have shared experience. He could have just as easily made SMN alone the natural extension of ACN, while SCH is leveled separately, as per their weapon and gear distinctions.


On topic:

Personally, the job as solely a second half of a given class has never made sense to me. The stuff of any job is simply an auxiliary or advanced toolkit which may or may not synergize specifically with a given weapon, and most have no reason to be the only jobs matchable with the weapons they currently match.

I could easily see Gladiator and Paladin as both being viable options, with Gladiator being more diverse in that it can has a largely pool or open skills by which to borrow mechanical traits and/or abilities from other classes, but optimally works itself into a counteroffensive opportunistic sort of swap-tank. I could see Archer as the most situationally-matchable and most fluid of the trio of the offensively-supportive Ranger, raid-supportive Bard, and the base Archer class. I could see Ronin allowing for considerably more flexibility at the cost of firepower and (unless borrowing from tanks) sturdiness compared to Samurai. I could see Rogue diversifying into Thief (based around item (ability) steals, traps, and parts management), Assassin (poisons and strikes of opportunity), and Ninja (ninjutsu and deception), or retuning the base kit to fit highly specific needs at lesser general output. A Lancer could move on to the way of the Adept or Dragoon, or even tune up Lancer to be a pretty damn good half-tank or point-support. Etc., etc.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Frankly, I think they could pull this off easily.

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This may seem complicated, but, technically, at level 60 and 70, it would give the exact same PLD we already have. A level 50 PLD would be stronger, but mainly more interesting by already having its 3 combos.

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That would certainly be nice.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

That would certainly be nice.

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I could see them restructuring classes, at least weapon skill classes, around the same pattern as Samurai - Get all your basic rotation stuff by 50, and then every 'expansion' adds new priority skills.

The way we're set now they've got a substantial workload every expansion, where each Job gets restructured a bit to support the ability pruning and updating the main rotation. Not a bad thing, but some of the Jobs have done well with this and some have felt kind of meh.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I could see them restructuring classes, at least weapon skill classes, around the same pattern as Samurai - Get all your basic rotation stuff by 50, and then every 'expansion' adds new priority skills.

The way we're set now they've got a substantial workload every expansion, where each Job gets restructured a bit to support the ability pruning and updating the main rotation. Not a bad thing, but some of the Jobs have done well with this and some have felt kind of meh.

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That is honestly the only reason I'm somewhat okay with the idea of ripping out the FF-like areas of customization as we have, assuming (falsely) that it's one or the other: at least I can start the leveling process with more than just 1, 1, 1 and then 1-2, 1-2, 1-2 all in the hopes of eventually being able to hit 1-2-3, 1-2-3...

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Edit your original post to get unlimited text allowance.

Though I should mention that this will never happen because split jobs are terrible and cause a lot of problems for the devs (they have said as much)

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I agree it will never happen, I don't agree that it's a terrible idea though. Arcanist was handled poorly in the beginning but it doesn't mean the idea is without merit.

As stated a few times they don't want to do split jobs but I do like a few of ur job descriptions like geomancer being a sort of ninja caster where they combine skills to make different effects happen.