Idea of a New WHM Mechanic: Thorns

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

I thought maybe thorns could be something akin to Thorn Bind Hostage from Log Horizon.

Where "number of roots" is based on thorns the WHM has accumulated. And instead of only being activates by melee attacks it could be activated by any weapon skill, spell, ability etc. from allies.

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Hmmmm...
Something that adds additional damage to the party's damage could be interesting.

How about something like:

Nophica's Bramble: oGCD ability. Can only be used if the user has 10 Thorns. Uses up all the user's Thorns and places a veil of thorns on all partymembers with in 15 yalms of the user for 10 seconds. Whenever an affected partymember damages a single target using a spell or weaponskill (excluding Damage-over-Time effects), the thorns will damage that target for additional damage equal to 25% of the original damage done (caps at 600 damage, only applies to the first hit if the spell or weaponskill hits multiple times). Instant cast time. 180 second cooldown.

Ooh that sounds cool too.

WHM needs utility because why should a job be useful in just Progression? Shouldn't we aim for all jobs being useful in all situations? As it stands now WHM is "supposed" to be replaced by an AST after prog, and every team just looks the same... PLD, WAR, AST, SCH, DRG, NIN, BRD, MCH (might change to MNK after 4.2?)

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Ooh that sounds cool too.

WHM needs utility because why should a job be useful in just Progression? Shouldn't we aim for all jobs being useful in all situations? As it stands now WHM is "supposed" to be replaced by an AST after prog, and every team just looks the same... PLD, WAR, AST, SCH, DRG, NIN, BRD, MCH (might change to MNK after 4.2?)

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It is useful post progression. It's a healer, and it does that well. Having all jobs be equally useful in all situations is just a ridiculous pipe dream, and chasing that just leads to mass homogenization.

Jobs having niches and unique skills is what makes them different, and as long as those differences are meaningful(which they should be 100%) then there will always be a "best."

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

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I'm not saying jobs can't be unique. But utility is very important to groups, which is why SAM and BLM are so weak right now. WHM is pretty fine right now, but extra utility wouldn't hurt. And like we've already seen in this thread, just because it gains more utility in some form doesn't mean it homogenizes with AST or SCH. The utility can take many different forums.

Really, what major benefit does a WHM give to a party once you know the healing requirements?

Honestly, boosting WHM's personal DPS isn't really a crazy idea, since it's supposed to be what sets it apart from AST in the personal vs raid DPS dichotomy. Maybe not a new AoE, cause WHM already has a lot of that, but increasing DoT potency, giving back the damage on Fluid Aura (or another oGCD to replace it, as the OP suggested), would do good to WHM and wouldn't really tip the balance in the favor or detriment of anyone.

I like the idea that WHM brings reliable, high damage, -higher than it is now, at least,-
while AST brings the RNG possibility of increasing rDPS by a higher margin given the right cards. As it stands right now, AST's rDPS contribution is almost always higher than a WHM's because the cards are pretty significant. If WHM had a means to close that gap a little bit more and make it so AST's superior contribution is a little bit more dependant on luck, it could set that problem to rest.

That said, I don't really think WHM vs AST is necessarily the core "problem" of current healer balance, but SCH's hilariously overpowered state as of 4.2. And even considering this, everyone in the healer forums seems to agree that balance is pretty much great right now, despite the somewhat evident, yet arguably deceiving advantages of AST.

Hello people!
Just another idea to make lilys loveable again after their usefulness was reduced to practically nothing after the patch. Stuff was based on the idea that the CDR on random abilities is rather uncontrollable and whm needs cool flexible moves.

Secrets of the Lily I

For every Cure and every Cure II, as well as for every critical Regen tick (@50% chance), a Lily is generated. A Lily can only be generated if the source skill actually heals the target. Up to 3 Lilys can be stored at a time.
Casting Presence of mind, Largesse, Assize, Asylum or Divine Bension will activate all Lilys on the Healing Gauge.
On activation, all Lilys all removed from the Healing Gauge and a respective number of stacks of Blooming is granted.
Under the Effect of Blooming, several Spells are enhanced. Blooming stacks fade after 15 seconds. The Maximum Stack number of Blooming is 3.

Cure
Under the Effect of Blooming, Cure can be casted instantly and grants the target 12 seconds of Regen, but costs 25% more mana.

Cure II
Under the Effect of Blooming, Cure II grants the target 15 seconds of Regen as additional effect.

All Stone spells
Under the Effect of Blooming, Stone spells are changed into Banish. (Or just get an additional effect because potency)
Banish has the same cast time as Stone X, but increases the targets damage taken by 3% for 3 seconds. Banish costs 50% more mana than a normal Stone spell.

Medica
Under the Effect of Blooming, Medica grants 3 seconds of Regen to every target hit, but costs 30% more mana. Additional Effect at Level 70: Grants 2 Stacks of Plenary Indulgence while under the Effect of Blooming.

Numbers should be taken not too seriously, i've not done the math, so the upgrades could be a little too strong.
I think this stuff would be even easy to implement. No new spells or animations, just a few lines of copied code :p

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

I'm not saying jobs can't be unique. But utility is very important to groups, which is why SAM and BLM are so weak right now. WHM is pretty fine right now, but extra utility wouldn't hurt. And like we've already seen in this thread, just because it gains more utility in some form doesn't mean it homogenizes with AST or SCH. The utility can take many different forums.

Really, what major benefit does a WHM give to a party once you know the healing requirements?

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As an aside, I would like to state my continuous befuddlement at the FFXIV community for equating utility with damage buffs.

Now with that being said, you could practically apply this logic to all jobs. What does DRG offer when the party can comfortably beat enrage?

The answer is the community just needs to stop treating damage as the end all be all stat. The days of skipping Lapis and Soar are gone. You're not going to skip anything noteworthy just by min/maxing dps.

It does not matter, at all, in the slightest how jobs are doing after you clear. Consistency is infinitely more important than clear speed. So then you pick your flavor group comp from there. Enrage getting you down? Go ahead and run whatever the top team meta is right now, but most people don't get stuck at enrage for months. They get stuck on mechanics, and WHEN they get stuck on mechanics, those other jobs are there for you.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

As an aside, I would like to state my continuous befuddlement at the FFXIV community for equating utility with damage buffs.

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Because damaging things is fun and feels the most rewarding to the broadest audience. :D
It's also the only way to progress and/or end a fight.
Consistency and Survivability are nice but if a party can't do enough damage at the end of the day, they can't progress due to all end-game fights having Hard Enrages.
A little boost to damage (or even giving heals more chances to DPS by doing mechanics correctly) can make a world of difference when there are DPS checks in fights, like beating normal Exdeath in o4s.
Plus, damage buffs are flashy and fun for everyone. :D

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

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But the faster you can kill something the faster you win, so the easier it is to farm etc.

If a player is equally comfortable with playing WHM and AST why would they pick WHM for a clear? I'm not saying WHM is in a bad spot, all I am saying is that extra team damage would be welcome.

People don't equate "utility" with "damage buffs", but more with "things that allow more damage in some way". Shields, crit bonuses, direct hit bonuses, piercing/slashing debuff, decreasing damage received... These things either grant more damage to your allies' attacks, or reduce required healing to allow more damage from healers.

There's a reason PLD is considered king of utility among tanks, even though it's utility is much more defence oriented than WAR.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

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or

Ultima: oGCD Spell. That's an AoE attack that have base 100 potency + 25 pot for each consumed thorn (-10% for the 2nd target, -20% for the 3rd, etc, you know the drill) within a 8-yalms range with a 3-minutes cooldown. That can proc after a combo of Stone IV or Holy > Aero II > Aero III > Assize, creating some sort of "Rotation".