New(?) idea: Junction of the Twelve

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belhi

I see two potential issues with a system which in any way effects combat performance, and it in both cases revolves around the fact that any combat specific buffs would come by the community to be seen as 'required'.

Firstly, it makes the time required for someone with more than one role take substantially longer to get 'up to standard'. I just need to point to WoWs artefact system for this. People burned themselves out early on in Legion grinding artefact power to max out their weapons so they had the maximum potential power out of them.

A fair point. But if we simply let you get points from every source that would otherwise give XP it could be a lot faster. There really isn't much to do in wow. It doesn't have the same variety of content we do.

Secondly, it makes it take even longer for a new player to get to the point where they can start experiencing end game with other players as once they actually get to max level they will then not only have the gear grind but another progression grind before they are 'ready' for end game content.

A further issue with this is as time passes the progression system would need to be expanded to stay relevant potentially making the time it take for newer players or players who are changing roles to 'catch up' even longer.

---

Very true. But you know the grind starts anyway with tomestones. And this is at least something that will stay relevant. Plus you gain points by doing stuff you would do anyway like with Woundrous Tails or Squadron Recruits.

On the one hand if we only did non-combat bonuses none of these would be an issue. On the other hand if we did combat bonuses it would be easier to catch up with your other classes.

It is a risky system with drawbacks but I do believe it is a calculated risk.

It wouldn't stay relevant because everyone would see maxing out the combat improvements as a 'requirement' and grind themselves to death to max them out. The only way to stop that would be like they do with Tomestones by capping progress which undermines the value of the system in the first place.

Again these issues only grow worse as the system expands and the grind gets longer. They could make the grind more manageable but then the system has no lifespan and its just the equivalent of having a couple of extra levels on top of what you already need to level. Note the WoW system was specifically designed to only survive on expansion before becoming obsolete.

Non combat bonuses would most definitely make it non mandatory but it would be interesting if they can come up with enough non combat bonuses to make it engaging for people.

This is basically an alternative advancement system and they can become quite a quagmire. The only style of system I have seen like this which has a lifespan is a reward track system where you spend exp to progress through a track getting rewards at certain points, with the rewards getting progressively better the further down the track you are and perhaps a special reward for getting all the way to the end of a particular track. That way you still earn rewards but they don't effect your characters power. More over they can make the required experience quite large since these rewards aren't 'necessary' to perform a role and as such it becomes less about grinding and more about just being rewarded for playing.

I would love alternative means to enhance your character but as others have mentioned, it would either be the illusion of choice or a power cap that newer players will find increasingly difficult to meet. I've seen systems like this work best with a game that has a definite end in its leveling experience or is built around more horizontal progression but easily become a grind that would, as Belhi above said, burn out players or require roadblocks to progression just like tomes/resets do for gear now to remain relevant content and not be consumed in quick order

Eventually at some point though the devs will have to do some other sort of system of power increase beyond item level bloat or a slowly increasing level cap. Systems like the one OP proposed are just a different set dressing on other talent trees or prestige systems from other games, which while not bad, just don't seem to be on the plan for the devs currently. Frankly they seem to want to play it extremely safe right now even 2 expansions in

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belhi

It wouldn't stay relevant because everyone would see maxing out the combat improvements as a 'requirement' and grind themselves to death to max them out.

---

When I said stay relevant I meant in the sense that we get a new tomestone every patch so one specific type of tomestone is relevant for a very short time. This is something you can grind for several expansions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balipu

When I said stay relevant I meant in the sense that we get a new tomestone every patch so one specific type of tomestone is relevant for a very short time. This is something you can grind for several expansions.

---

We get new tomestones every other patch. Once we get tomestones of mendacity in 4.2, we won't get any new tomestones until 4.4 comes out.

Also, like I said in my earlier post, it shouldn't have any combat-based elements in it. Maybe something for crafters and gatherers as a means of promoting activity there, but nothing associated with combat or else it can lead to a potential PR hazard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balipu

-Snip-

---

I hope not. This idea is basically a fancy sounding talent system. Multiple gods with multiple features, that's just talent trees.
Paragon system works in D3 because it's mostly a single/coop game. Bonus stats or traits would simply be fresh grounds for shitting at people for not having Y feature for X scenario. You want a ton of work to be done, when they already struggling with standard updates, which are more common than any other solid mmo out there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazrah

We get new tomestones every other patch. Once we get tomestones of mendacity in 4.2, we won't get any new tomestones until 4.4 comes out.

Also, like I said in my earlier post, it shouldn't have any combat-based elements in it. Maybe something for crafters and gatherers as a means of promoting activity there, but nothing associated with combat or else it can lead to a potential PR hazard.

---

We could easily associate half of them with crafting (Byregot & Nymeia), gathering (Nophica, Oschon, & Llymlaen), and commerce (Nald'thal). I like the idea, but what do you do with the others?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zsolen

We could easily associate half of them with crafting (Byregot & Nymeia), gathering (Nophica, Oschon, & Llymlaen), and commerce (Nald'thal). I like the idea, but what do you do with the others?

---

Aesthetics? Mounts? At least Nymeia could be something related to the Gold Saucer.

Actually what I meant by that comment was to have some sort of generic bonuses in there for crafters and gatherers to attain. Basically anything to keep it away from anything associated with combat stats or buffs or otherwise anything requiring the words "balance" or "adjustment" in regard to PvE or PvP content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazrah

Aesthetics? Mounts? At least Nymeia could be something related to the Gold Saucer.

Actually what I meant by that comment was to have some sort of generic bonuses in there for crafters and gatherers to attain. Basically anything to keep it away from anything associated with combat stats or buffs or otherwise anything requiring the words "balance" or "adjustment" in regard to PvE or PvP content.

---

If the bonuses are good enough for people to care I'm all for non combat buffs. Of course that begs the question what deities like Halone and Rhalgr would give that is unrelated to combat. They are very much fighters. More reward items? More xp?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balipu

If the bonuses are good enough for people to care I'm all for non combat buffs. Of course that begs the question what deities like Halone and Rhalgr would give that is unrelated to combat. They are very much fighters. More reward items? More xp?

---

How about bonuses to squadron members? Still combat-themed without being associated with PvE or PvP content.