Rival Wings: remove soaring and remove mid

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Originally Posted by Sunako

I would make killing more rewarding. Make every player death suffer 1% from current tower/core hp max hp.

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That would be abusable by the headless chickens who give up early, or bots/alts throwing matches.
Killing was never a problem or a reward, personal objectives don't do well in a team mode.

edit: I agree soaring needs to be changed. Focused killing need to be rewarded, random/aoe kills no.
Instead of damage buff by percent, why not give vulnerability debuffs to targets.
Amount of soaring stacks sets how many targets we can put those debuffs on.

Incentivizing player KOs would only increase people queueing as/switching to healer in order to try and better avoid it.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Incentivizing player KOs would only increase people queueing as/switching to healer in order to try and better avoid it.

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It's always going to be a problem for the masses/general public. Balancing roles can take either from devs making it fixed like Feast, or from the players like Seal Rock. I'm more of the latter since I don't see that problem in older or more stable modes.

Keep in mind, at the height of Seal Rock's popularity (which I hope may rise again with the coming of a new Seize map) healers were healers. Their damage abilities weren't terribly potent and healing vs damage values weren't nearly as skewed as they are now. Having multiple healers then came with the expense of low damage, but that's not quite the case anymore.

In one of the recent interviews where Yoshi P was on some of the servers (Ramuh, Gungnir and another one I can't recall), someone told him to nerf healers in Rival Wings, and he responded that if they did that -- no one would want to play healers in PVP.

So I think what they will do is increase the damage output or otherwise balance other classes to be on the level with healers.

Their damage isn't particularly that high though, just south of 1k a GCD. The healing values were just as skewed then, too; you just didn't feel it as much because you could shut their heals off a lot easier, and there really never was a reason to defensively stack healers, since holding territory alone wasn't as advantageous. Mostly the problem is that there's a lot higher focus on defense than offense in RW for certain key areas, and they didn't rebalance potency when they lessened CC and the LB damage. TBH, they really should just nerf and alter them anyways.

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

In one of the recent interviews where Yoshi P was on some of the servers (Ramuh, Gungnir and another one I can't recall), someone told him to nerf healers in Rival Wings, and he responded that if they did that -- no one would want to play healers in PVP.

So I think what they will do is increase the damage output or otherwise balance other classes to be on the level with healers.

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The way RW is set up makes healing as healing really stupidly inefficient anyways; 4 man parties + having one out of your four players in a mech makes actual healing not even exist. Healing in it is soft tanking, really. If you took healers completely out of the mode, you actually wouldn't miss that much in real play.

I think he is thinking of Feast, but ugh, that mode has been an albatross around our necks since it first came out.

"No one would want to play healers" is not only false, it's an insult to every career healer that learned to play well and became known for it before 4.0. It's either a weak handwave of an answer, or a complete misunderstanding of PvP and its playerbase. For all that I've done, for all I continue to do, I'm able to because I had dedicated, SKILLED healers backing me up.

Healers don't need a nerf, they need proper balancing. I strongly doubt anyone who does it willingly would hold issue with that. I'm sure however anyone holds issue with being told a blatant lie.

With the nerf to class specific skills for lame PVP actions, can they really afford to change healers up that much? We already can't DPS as well, can't AOE heal and lost most CCs. If we can't even hold our ground without dying against DPS that aren't even playing skillfully (not CCing, not using strategy or working together) then what would healers do in RW?

Follow around other players like a walking regen? You'd just as well always jump in a mech since there's not much use otherwise.

This is why I point out Soaring. Healers aren't nearly as bountiful, nor tanky in other PvP modes. It speaks in volumes that suddenly they're an issue when they gain killstreak buffs that they didn't get kills for, or when they can easily heal and push mammets and self sustain unless taken out with numbers or a mech.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Actually, mammets give 1 CE per kill. It's really not much, but if you're steadily pushing mammets and a teammate grabs CE tanks, it can all add up.

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It's actually much more than this I believe. The amount of CE you get is proportional to how much damage you/r group dealt to it. I want to say it's actually as high as 10, but it's hard to tell since your own team's mammets do a decent chunk of the damage usually, and I have no idea how healing impacts it.

As far as healing goes.. given I've been leveling AST the last week or so, all I can say is lol. Those times where I'm running around kiting 4-5 players plus mechs that are having difficulty trying to kill me are situations that really, really shouldn't be something that happens. They might not be coordinated on cc or burst, but the sheer HPS vs DPS is redonkulous. 1v1, 2v1, you're practically a god. I don't even have to pay attention to the situations I'm walking into most of the time.