Discrimination of certain jobs - your opinion

This is basically a normal online gaming issue caused by a player made "meta" that is seen in just about every online game out there that either has multiple characters or classes to play as.

I think the problem here isn't the damage output of jobs like SAM that don't have party based utility to offer. Its that the benefit from this job hinges entirely on that 1 person knowing how to do the battle and play their job. While another job with utility will output less personally but allow other party members to perform better. I personally care nothing for meta on any game as if frequently causes large portions of the player base to think that meta is the only way to play the game when it isn't. I do think part of the issue is the hard enrage timers on 8 man content currently making the battle a DPS check. Without it we probably wouldn't be hearing about this as much

There’s an unhealthy stigma that SAM is a “selfish” job because it doesn’t provide utility, which Monk got away from in 3.0 due to Dragon Kick and Mantra. For me, personally, I don’t care what job you bring to a fight, but I’ll be laser focused on your strengths. Meaning, if a Dragoon is out dpsing a Samurai in similar ilv, I’ll make a mental note of that player. Likewise a Bard that doesn’t use their utility, a Red Mage that refuses to raise, an Astro using the wrong cards, etc.

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Originally Posted by AmaSagahl

I don't get all the saltiness towards other jobs. I just wish it would be more balanced.

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I've always said it's the fact theu try to make everything so balanced that is the cause of most of the problems. Not just in dps but everything.

Tanks for example. Paladin was highly defensive with no offence. But balance meant warriors and later darks also had to be able to tank well enough but those jobs bought more dps to the table and As a warrior/ dark could tank well enough. The extra defence of a paladin was useless and that's why they were shunned and given so many offensive buffs.

Healers. Whm was raw healing power but again sch and later say had to be able to heal well enough for the sake of balance the result again was whms got left out as the extra healing power they bought was unnecessary. More offence was better.

And with dps it's the same. That's why many took a drg over a monk because balance says drg damage must be comparable but dragon also had utility with litany and such. Which trumped the ever so slightly higher dps a monk offered.

Balance is the problem. They need to really make jobs unique and less samey so they all bring something to the table.

The extra healing power of a whm for example should be powerful enough a group only needs one healer. Maybe a smn or redmage for a secondary raise. Should the worst happen. Or the extra defensive power of a old might mean it can survive mecha wars and drks might have to swap for. Meaning 1 pld could be enough. Or 2 of either war and dark.

But as long as they try and balance everything the system will never work. Utility will always be king because pure fps jobs just don't offer enough extra dps to male them worthwhile.

Same with healers. Utility will always trump more unneeded healing power. And tanks fps will always trump extra mitigation that just isnt necessary

@Beckett

Umm....yes? And at least on the EU datacenter, they are the least popular class right now in PF.

I was kind of hoping people would refrain from comments like this and actually contribute ;)

I will be entirely honest. I don't purposely exclude SAM but if you are trying to do good numbers or speed kill they're not worth taking. One of my static members realized this awhile back and swapped to NIN of her own volition and it's been significantly better, especially in fights like Neo Exdeath. And if you're tryna farm it's like why take a SAM when all it does is make fights take longer and force tanks to adjust for you?

Pros: ...late applied slashing debuff.

Cons: High aggro, basically zero aggro management(tank dps loss if forced to aggro combo), none of at least one raidwide buff(raidwide dps loss), not enough damage to make up for not just taking a NIN instead.

I am using NIN as its counterpart but you can replace it with basically any dps besides BLM to get the same effect. BLM is in an even worse spot if you can believe it so let's not go there.

Also MNK and MCH.are 100% fine....idk why people still think they're bad lol. Old judgements die hard.

Ok...one more "nickle's" worth of opinion.

Does the componsition of a party have an impact on the raid? Yes.
Should it matter if the raid is succesfull? Even if it takes longer? NO!!!!!ONEONEONEONEONE1111!!!!!!

Discrimination is stupid..knock it off (yells at people who are elitist jackass opinionated)
If your going to ask for someone to change roles..do so politely....have a good reason..don't be a jerk.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Time to move to a different server?
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The elitism is getting out of control honestly. All you can do is find a better group to work with.
SE doesn't need to do anything...its the people who need to stop acting like idiots....IMHO.

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But are there really less idiots on other servers? And yes, elitism is definitely a problem. What happened to me today... made me question why I am playing this game. There was a dude from Odin joining my o1s group, posting my fflogs link and telling me basically how shit it is, and then immediately left saying he can't stay.

I have two parses on my fflogs, one was uploaded without my consent when I was really fucking up a lot (and everyone knows those fights) and the second one was around 4.3k on Alte Roite - still not the best, but I am just climbing the dps ladder to the top (well, I am really determined). It kind of reflected the current environment on the data center.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Ok...one more "nickle's" worth of opinion.

Does the componsition of a party have an impact on the raid? Yes.
Should it matter if the raid is succesfull? Even if it takes longer? NO!!!!!ONEONEONEONEONE1111!!!!!!

Discrimination is stupid..knock it off (yells at people who are elitist jackass opinionated)
If your going to ask for someone to change roles..do so politely....have a good reason..don't be a jerk.

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I really appreciate I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

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Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

I will be entirely honest. I don't purposely exclude SAM but if you are trying to do good numbers or speed kill they're not worth taking. One of my static members realized this awhile back and swapped to NIN of her own volition and it's been significantly better, especially in fights like Neo Exdeath. And if you're tryna farm it's like why take a SAM when all it does is make fights take longer and force tanks to adjust for you?

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I get your points, totally. SAM damage doesn't make up for the lack of utility, so they would either have to bump the damage a bit to make it worthwile (and ignoring people yelling 'but my dps should be better') or give us also a raid buff.
That is why I am saying, I don't find it balanced nor do I find it fair. And I won't change to NIN just because of that, I shouldn't be forced to switch from a job that is challenging and fun to play - just for trick attack.

My opinion? People who discriminate are idiots. End.