Dark Knight and Incoming Live Letter 4.2 on 12/15/17

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Originally Posted by shao32

I dont expect nothing from this live letter, they always save balance stuff for the letter before the patch

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Pretty much this. Probably just a mention of 'Job tweaks coming, please look forward to it' if it comes up at all. At best you will get a specific job mentions "Were looking into Blm and Drk. Please look forward to it".

If they are any changes to DRK, hopefully it'll be in terms of increased potency in actions or better self-sustain. Self-sustain is terrible on DRK and only viable on large packs of mobs for DA + Abyssal Drain.

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Originally Posted by rxnin

If they are any changes to DRK, hopefully it'll be in terms of increased potency in actions or better self-sustain. Self-sustain is terrible on DRK and only viable on large packs of mobs for DA + Abyssal Drain.

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Technically its almost as viable on single target. (and by almost viable, i mean its practically never viable, even in AoE)

If each enemy hits you for 100 dmg each, and lets pretend you hit every enemy, healing for 10 each.
thats 300 dmg taken, 30 healed. (10%)
or its 500 dmg taken, 50 healed.

So if a single target hits you for 100, and you heal 10, you just "mitigated" the same amount.


If its not viable on single target, then its not technically viable in multiple targets.
(Unless it grows for every target past the 1st, on top of its effect already)

The MP is better spent elsewhere.

If it had no MP cost, and was a CD, that on a rare occasion can heal you, then hitting multiple targets is the better route, as you're going to use it anyways, as there is no penalty to using it.
But DA is the penalty for using it, and therefor just as much of a waste on multiple targets as single target.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Technically its almost as viable on single target. (and by almost viable, i mean its practically never viable, even in AoE)

If each enemy hits you for 100 dmg each, and lets pretend you hit every enemy, healing for 10 each.
thats 300 dmg taken, 30 healed. (10%)
or its 500 dmg taken, 50 healed.

So if a single target hits you for 100, and you heal 10, you just "mitigated" the same amount.


If its not viable on single target, then its not technically viable in multiple targets.
(Unless it grows for every target past the 1st, on top of its effect already)

The MP is better spent elsewhere.

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You normally don't fight multiple enemies that hit for the same amount of damage as a single target.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Technically its almost as viable on single target. (and by almost viable, i mean its practically never viable, even in AoE)

If each enemy hits you for 100 dmg each, and lets pretend you hit every enemy, healing for 10 each.
thats 300 dmg taken, 30 healed. (10%)
or its 500 dmg taken, 50 healed.

So if a single target hits you for 100, and you heal 10, you just "mitigated" the same amount.


If its not viable on single target, then its not technically viable in multiple targets.
(Unless it grows for every target past the 1st, on top of its effect already)

The MP is better spent elsewhere.

If it had no MP cost, and was a CD, that on a rare occasion can heal you, then hitting multiple targets is the better route, as you're going to use it anyways, as there is no penalty to using it.
But DA is the penalty for using it, and therefor just as much of a waste on multiple targets as single target.

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Your comparison ignores the damage though and only describes the HP gained. The only reason Drk sustain is 'viable' on packs is because its an AOE move that adds up to a ton of potency. Youd never use DAAD on a ST just because of the crap damage. You also seem to only be referencing the DA cost of DAAD in the view of a % of damage received. But on packs of stuff, they all hit like pansies so it will be much more 'sustaining' as a measure of keeping yourself up than a boss that AAs for 20k a hit while you DAAP 1 target for 1000hp.

Drk's single target sustain is non-existent while its AOE sustain on fluff damage packs of dungeon mobs 40 ilvls below you is pretty respectable. Theres no real mixing of those 2 categories for drk now.

Edit: Apparently im to slow.

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

You normally don't fight multiple enemies that hit for the same amount of damage as a single target.

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That basically.

I just want the old Blood Price and the old Dark Passenger back. But alas, I don't expect anything. I'd rather hope for nothing and be pleasantly surprised. But let's be real, SE probably won't make any meaningful changes to DRK. ;_;

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

You normally don't fight multiple enemies that hit for the same amount of damage as a single target.

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In the example, I was more so referencing a situation where they do, so in this case, you killed 2 or 3 enemies in a group, of all the same type of enemy, and you have 1 remaining enemy, who was the same type.
(only by the example, and yes I wasnt being very clear with where I was taking the example. As a side note, the amount of dmg a target hits you for, doesnt effect the amount in which it heals anyways, so its not a factor for deciding if its worth using really. It's just to paint a picture.)

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Originally Posted by Aana

Your comparison ignores the damage though and only describes the HP gained. The only reason Drk sustain is 'viable' on packs is because its an AOE move that adds up to a ton of potency. Youd never use DAAD on a ST just because of the crap damage. You also seem to only be referencing the DA cost of DAAD in the view of a % of damage received. But on packs of stuff, they all hit like pansies so it will be much more 'sustaining' as a measure of keeping yourself up than a boss that AAs for 20k a hit while you DAAP 1 target for 1000hp.

Drk's single target sustain is non-existent while its AOE sustain on fluff damage packs of dungeon mobs 40 ilvls below you is pretty respectable. Theres no real mixing of those 2 categories for drk now.

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The fact Abyssal Drain is better on multiple targets (for damage) isnt the argument, but the healing's "cost" is the argument. (obviously it heals more, on more targets, but its cost doesnt get cheaper per target, only what the cost offers, but its offer is offest by the amount of extra number of targets attacking u now, aka they cancel out)
The healing does have 2 requirements.
(1) Abyssal Drain be cast
and
(2) Dark Arts be active.

For arguments sake, lets pretend Abyssal drain isnt a requirement. (You are right, that its an additional cost)

If you could just hit Dark Arts, and then another button to eat the DA, just to land a heal, equal to what you would get from DA/AD, it wouldnt be worth it.
It's an emergency last option.
If youre out of CDs to lower damage, or you're down a healer, then it's worth the MP cost.

The argument is half "The number of targets" and half "is it worth using the MP?"

The number of targets is irrelevant to the MP cost, but as you mentioned, is relevant to abyssal drain, as its a requirement.

Now, the alternative is to use Soul Eater in case you dont have a healer.

If there is 1 target, Soul eater is the better for self sustain.
If there are multiple targets, Abyssal Drain is better than soul eater in self sustain.
But even if its better than soul eater, that doesnt make its MP cost worth it.

So I brought up the example of using on a single target, to explain WHY its not worth it. (But there are exceptions where it is.)

I think this should help explain where I'm coming from with this better.

Can we get an ability that manipulates our resource? Like DA effect on Blood Price, half or reduce mana costs by 1/3rd and can be used without grit if we have a dark effects on? Like the ability will retain color once we have a DA effect and if we don't it fades away, making it the same look when we're not in Grit.

Of course, the CD has to be increased, I'd say give it current delirium's CD and give current Delirium 1.5/1 min cd? Idk, I just want a change already and it's almost been half a year with our bandaged up fixes.

Hi,

Honestly, I'd like and preferred Drk to be buffed only in the amount of HP for Soul Eater. It would be what separates it from the other Tanks as right now the small amount of HP that Dark Knight regains can't really compare to Warrior's Heals.

When Ultimate Bahamut came out and was downed by the JP server people. All the JPs and us here could not understand why everyone was freaking out over a Drk being in the team com to down it. Over here, Drk is preferred over other Tanks for MT simply due to their higher Magic Resist. I would guess its probably the different mentality of the different regions?

As for DPS-wise, maybe the Dark Knight's DPS can remain the same as compensation for the increased amount of HP they get from Soul Eater. Making them to be more of a sustain tank that can really hold the ground when a healer is down without popping immunity. Anyways, at the rate things are going, Drk will not be receiving any changes for a very very long time.

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Originally Posted by VthMillion

Hi,

Honestly, I'd like and preferred Drk to be buffed only in the amount of HP for Soul Eater.

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I gave a suggestion earlier in this OP about our self sustain. If old Delirium is brought back, instead of INT down, we can get a stacking buff of increasing Soul Eater's HP restoration is increased by 20% per stack up to a max cap of 5. So, imagine getting 5 stacks, DA SE and you'd get a 14k heal. Also affected by DH and crits, so this could replace our "restore HP quickly ourselves" button.

It can be tweaked where the stack can be consumed only with DA so a normal SE wouldn't remove it when we want to keep it safe for aligning a heal after a Tank buster. But then again, they'd need to do stuff like give it a high potency so we try and stack that effect without sacrificing our DPS much, it's already the worst out of the 3 so ya, need some work on that.