Scholar and Astrologian RDPS comparison

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

All this being said, the healer meta isn’t incredibly important unless your group is aiming to one day compete for world first, or do speed kills/parse runs. Ultimately, I think you should do whatever healer combination your healers feel comfortable with (WHM/SCH or WHM/AST may not be meta, but if your healers are uncomfortable with the other healing jobs, best they play what’s comfortable for them because being uncomfortable in a role will negatively impact performance and, by proxy, rDPS). If you’re just wanting to mess around and see if you can buff rDPS but not really be competitive about it, go for it, and know it’s okay if it “doesn’t work out” running SCH/AST.

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^ This, but even then, the world first/second/third Unending Coil kills were WHM/SCH. So even if it's not meta, it clearly works pretty well for progression. :)

Unless your goal is to get impressive parses, you shouldn't worry about this a whole lot on the healer side. Comfort and skill level with the jobs you're running with matter more than composition if you're running two different jobs.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Pretty much as above really. Being able to guarantee Chain aligning with your other raid buffs is absolutely massive, making it punch well above the weight most initially expected it to.

For perspective, on a reasonably clean (or at least, as clean as my group ever gets these days) O2S, I'm 1.7-2k dps with over 2k being a very attainable target with a little practice. .

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So at the risk of exposing my lack of skill, how are you hitting these numbers? I am slowly getting better, but I am still what feels like miles away from what your hitting for dps. I know I need to work on remembering to stack my dot as much as possible, but what other steps can I take to reach the numbers you are hitting?

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Originally Posted by JCT

So at the risk of exposing my lack of skill, how are you hitting these numbers? I am slowly getting better, but I am still what feels like miles away from what your hitting for dps. I know I need to work on remembering to stack my dot as much as possible, but what other steps can I take to reach the numbers you are hitting?

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Can you link your friends log here? I can give you a pretty precise comparison if you can.

Honestly though, it's not really a skill thing, more a mixture of trust in your regens and co healer, memorisation of the fight and perhaps most importantly, remembering to absolutely crush your Stone IV button pretty much any point you're not specifically doing something else.

O2S doesn't really have any points where you can get bonus hits out of Assize or such, so it's really just a case of treating it like the target dummy it is and just blasting away as much as possible. I'm usually around a 95% active rate, whereas my co healer will hit as high as 98-99% through a combination of both being better and more confident than me. Once you hit my sort of numbers, the next stretch is to eek out and optimise those inevitable gaps in the middle of mechanics whilst also making the most of your dots.

Sebazy speaks truth. The biggest hurdle to higher tier healer raid DPS, aside from learning the fight with optimization in mind, is being able to cut unnecessary GCD healing.

For SCH and Noct AST, this means shielding only when truly needed, which runs counter to the habit of shielding regularly in anticipation of attacks. If your group makes frequent mistakes, your DPS will quickly take a nose dive.

started logging since yesetdray https://www.fflogs.com/reports/67bDP...adNqB#fight=22
i can pretty much tell that since me and my partner healers aren't very used to each other - we reach high amount of overheal (which can obviously have been put in to dps instead). i will of course will be trying to discuss with all our healers the base tactics in pair depending on what raid we are in.
one more question though. since scholar and noct astrologian do pre-shielding, i wonder what would be an acceptable overheal for them, since overheal is obviously unavoidable, when shields are needed

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Originally Posted by SilentVoice

started logging since yesetdray...

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While I am no expert SCH (WHM main here :P), the basis for high healer DPS remains the same, and is dependant on several factors.

1 - Knowing how much HP people need to survive the next mechanic. You may think "well, duh!", but in reality, this means that people only need a certain amount of HP and don't need to be topped off all the time. An example of such situation is Roar > Roar into Charybdis > Roar in O1S. People only need enough HP to survive the first two Roars. Even if they're left at sub 10k hp after those, healing isn't needed as Charybdis will reduce everyone to critical HP. After Charybdis you can simply swift Succor into Indom (depending on what your co healer does there, the Succor may not even be needed). This is just an example of healing 4 rounds of AOE damage on 1 GCD, there are other situations like this all over Savage/Ex content. It's all about knowing how much damage is coming.

2 - Know your co healer. Knowing their healing output will give you confidence (or lack of thereof, in this case things should be discussed) to DPS.

3 - ABC (always be casting) - I can't stress how important this is. I find it to be one of the most importants regarding output in any role. Try to always keep your GCD rolling, weave your instants when you need to move. DPSing as a healer is essentially like DPSing as a caster, so making sure you're always active is crucial.

4 - SCH in particular has a LOT of tools that they can use to minimize GCD healing. Between super powerful fairy cooldowns and strong OGCD heals, you will want to plan those accordingly to expand your DPS windows. And always remember not every AOE need to be shielded, specially if your party members are using their damage reducing CDs appropriately (Reprisal, Addle, Dismantle, Troubador...). For example, in O2S, I don't cast a single GCD heal until after the tentacles go off. First Dimensional Wave is covered by Fey Covenant + Indom and the Fourfold Sacrifice with Rouse + Whispering. Tanks are healed by the fairy, Excog and Fey Union.

I can't look at your logs (page you linked gives me an error), but I can give you a link of my last O2S kill: https://www.fflogs.com/reports/vwcHY...pe=damage-done
Like I said I'm absolutely no top tier SCH (and I'm still using a 235 book /cry), but should this should be somewhere to start at.

The comp with the highest raid dps will always include a sch until the point where the fairy is nerfed. I dont expect this since SE seems to love sch so much so I really wouldn't worry at all about your raid spot as a sch. If your dps is low, that reflects more on improvements you need to make on yourself than on the state of class balance. What you need to look at is if YOU as a sch, are bringing an increase in raid dps. Are you managing your stacks the right way? Are you using your fairy skills effectively? Are you making appropriate decisions about what needs to be mitigated and what doesn't? Raiders on the more casual side seem to get overly obsessed with comp and they undervalue the importance of how they perform on that class.

If you dont play sch well, as is true with a lot of healers, there is no point in bringing one really. You have to play right as a sch to see a raid dps increase. The major raid dps increase from sch comes from two sources-
1. using your stacks the right way to reduce the number of GCD heals you and your cohealer have to cast. Here's a hit for this... if you or your cohealer use a GCD to heal when you could have stack healed and they could have been casing stone/broil/malefic instead, you have caused a raid dps loss.
2. using the fairy's skills to reduce the number of OGCD heals you/your cohealer have to cast. WD, fey cov and illu are very powerful. We frequently swap out a regen or a shield for fairy skills and get more dps as a result. Your cohealer should be aware of when you plan to use these skills and you need to be very dependable with them so you can plan around them. Example- your cohealer could save tetra by you using the tether at a certain part of a fight.

If you dont want to do these things or you dont have the skill to, then there really is no reason to play sch. I dont say this to be mean.. but the only thing that separates sch from noct ast is the fairy and your stack heals. If you cant manage those things then you might as well be playing ast. I get what you are saying about your GCD heals. You like needing them and they feel impactful. But you also talk about wanting your group to have increased raid dps. Casing GCD heals and having more raid dps are often in direct opposition to eachother. Your entire goal as a healer should be to cast the exact amount of GCD heals that is needed, and the rest of your GCDs go to dps. This is the most efficient way to play. Now, I'm not saying that you cant never chose to play safe and cast a few extra GCDs, but also recognize when you wasted them and become aware of it.

Also guys, please be careful linking logs on the forums if you dont want to get banned. Remember this is still against TOS and all it takes is one person to report you to join the legions of players already banned for discussing logs.

Some comments on your O2s log anyway- You are using selene. You should be using eos. You casted no excogs. You should be using it more, it's especially good for when the boss is putting stacks on the tank into the tank buster. Your ED dps is very low. You are either not using aetherflow enough or you are sitting on stacks for too long. Or both. You are not using miasma 2 or ruin 2 to weave when moving. Miasma 2 should be used when possible, but if you have to be oor then ruin 2 should be used. You casted 11 adlos. Try and replace other healing for those like excog, lustrate, fairy tether. Your dot up time could use a little work but its not bad at all.
Your overall CMP is very low. You need to work on ABC- always be casing. For reference, I compared your CMP to another sch in your kill time bracket and you did 222 casts and they did 324. So that's about 100 different and I belive is your main loss of dps.
Dont take this feedback hard. Your percentile ranking is close to 50%, which means you still did better then about 50% of other scholars. Which is not bad at all for a casual raider. I think you mainly need to work on your CPM and also some better healing choices. Remember also that lots of things affect your ability to dps as a healer. It's not just you plus strat like a dps class. You have to consider your tanks (are they making the most of thier CDs to help you?) and your dps (are they using mitigation skills at appropriate times to reduce healing needed?) and your cohealer (if your cohealer doesn't have good healing sense or refuses to work together with you, pushing more dps can be very hard).

Editing to add- I think you should actually feel really accomplished that this is your only log and its about 50 percentile. For reference, I joined my raid group when they were not logging at all. I started logging regularly for them, and pushing the importance of dps. In the last two tiers we have gone from half the group doing grey percentiles to having all of the group doing purple percentiles and a few doing orange. this is why I personally see logging as vital to improvement and I hope you keep logging and looking at your logs regularly. It's easy to be complacent about performance when you have no idea how much dps you are doing. But once the fact is in your face, you can clearly see what you need to improve. You should learn to use the comparison feature because its a very fast and easy way to compare yourself to other players. So yeah I basically want to say good job and I'm sure you can improve quickly now that you are logging and this may help your group improve as well.

Anyway there's my long post contribution. I'd recommend you join a community that allows log posting and feedback. I like the balance discord https://thebalanceffxiv.com/ and I have learned a lot there the last few months.

The comment about Eos vs Selene is very important. Even though Eos doesn't have a direct DPS contribution to counter Fey Wind, Whispering Dawn is a strong contender for the most powerful healing CD in the game, due to the sheer amount of HPS it provides for being an oGCD. Using it to heal raidwide damage will free up a LOT of GCD healing for both you and the other healer (It's technically not an oGCD per se, but you should always pair it with Rouse, so that's kinda besides the point).

As Sebazy said, reaching high DPS numbers mostly depends on planning out your CD usage with the other healer. By CD usage I mean the use of Tetragrammaton, Excog, Fey Union, Whispering Dawn, Assize, Asylum, Indomitability, etc. All of these cost no GCD to use, and can carry most of the healing burden by themselves most of the time. When taking an AST, it's paramount to abuse the hell out of Earthly Star.

Using the start of O2S as an example: If you're running with a PLD or WAR, you can have them put up Divine Veil and/or Shake it Off for very first Gravitational Wave. For Divine Veil, you can trigger it freely by manually casting Embrace on the tank without wasting a GCD heal yourself. Once GraviWave goes off, you can cast Whispering Dawn and let the regens passively heal everyone up to around 75% HP, a range that is safe enough for people to survive the following stack for Gravi Manipulation. If you don't feel confident on letting Whispering Dawn do the job, WHM can throw Asylum in, or save Assize particularly for that instead of using it in their opener. Once the stack for Gravi Manipulation goes off, you can top people off with Indom, and by the time the tentacles drop Whispering Dawn will have come back up to heal both healers and the tanks before the next Gravi Wave, which comes in a set of two. You can mitigate both of these with Fey Covenant, Reprisal (from tanks), Addle (from casters), Dismantle (from MCH) and/or anything else. That way you can throw out Indom to heal the first one, and the second one can be healed either with Medica II or Cure III, since everyone is stacked up in the safe spot.

This kind of mentality is what allows for such high healer DPS: mitigating damage through the use of oGCD abilities (like Fey Covenant, the tanks' barriers, Addle, etc), and abusing the hell out of healer oGCDs to heal this previously reduced damage.