LB3 and animation

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Strategy. Being a healer main and using my fair share of Pulse of Lifes, you learn when it's safe to use that LB3 or if it will just kill you and/or your party. You don't pop LB3willy-nilly, even if your team yells LB3! Using LB as a DPS, you should be familiar enough in a fight to know if you'll end up in bad for the next 10 to 15 seconds.

If you don't know the timing, or the fight, make someone else use it if you can't plan around that recovery.



This means you were too slow. Someone cannot be healed and die at the same time on the same server tick. Either your heal went off before the damage that they took at the server tick, which means they live, or they took the damage first, and you did the heal shortly after and then the server tick resolved and they died. This is why it is important to make sure autos will not crit and kill them. The same applies to cooldowns that many treat as life or death saves (hallowed, living, bene).

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Nope, when you are trying to deal with randoms and do actions to complete the run there is no "Strategy" excuse, I do not see the reason defending what is clearly a flaw. In other words, I shouldn't be wiping and unable to save the wipe because of an oversight, I do not believe this is intentional since they clearly do not know what the game is like with real world ping values.

Using an ability, have said ability use the resources to use it, like LB bar, MP, long cooldown, etc, and have it NOT WORK OR DO ANYTHING is a BUG!!! not something that needs to be "planned"

No it does not mean Penthea was too slow, it means the server is too slow in reading data. These "server tics" are too slow and causes the game to bug.

To the origional question. They all take 8 seconds from start of cast to release of rooting for lb3.
Tanks have 5s till rooted, healer have 2s (which means they are rooted the longest), melee/ranged have 3s, casters 3-4s till rooted dependent on ping.
Cast/rooted time is independent of the job specific animation length.
Instant in this game refers to the cast time required, not the time it takes to go in effect.
Wether you think rooting, effect delay, and/or resource dumping on death is "antiquated" or not is personal opinion. Personally I think its a good thing given how scripted this game is, these tools were clearly designed to be used at deliberate points of content, not as "oh ****" buttons.

Nah the animation lock is pretty terrible. It gets to the point where no one wants to use DPS LB because the animation lock screws over your whole rotation and just isn't that satisfying to use. Healer LB outright makes you a martyr in most situations, as you'll just die to the next mechanic while everyone is getting revived. Tank LB is the most responsive, but given its main purpose it sorta has to be.

Literally no one would complain if they nerfed the potency of melee LB and took away the animation lock. They've buffed healer LB once, they can do it again as it has range from useful to completely worthless in some circumstances due simply to the animation lock.

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Originally Posted by Lollie

Personally I think its a good thing given how scripted this game is, these tools were clearly designed to be used at deliberate points of content, not as "oh ****" buttons.

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But the healer limit break's whole point is to use when shit hits the fan. There will never be content where you strategically have to revive an entire party in normal circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

Nope, when you are trying to deal with randoms and do actions to complete the run there is no "Strategy" excuse, I do not see the reason defending what is clearly a flaw. In other words, I shouldn't be wiping and unable to save the wipe because of an oversight, I do not believe this is intentional since they clearly do not know what the game is like with real world ping values.

Using an ability, have said ability use the resources to use it, like LB bar, MP, long cooldown, etc, and have it NOT WORK OR DO ANYTHING is a BUG!!! not something that needs to be "planned"

No it does not mean Penthea was too slow, it means the server is too slow in reading data. These "server tics" are too slow and causes the game to bug.

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Only time I don't deal with randoms and possible bad players is when I'm raiding. I'm well acquainted with how quickly things can go south for seemingly no reason. There is still strategy, though most might call it "yomi." I could argue back that no one should be messing up on scripted fights, but eh, human error. There's a reason why some people are just bad at Simon Says.

There's a difference between things not working and a perceived, incorrect assumption on how things should work. I believe you're working from the latter. At the end of the day, bug reports of this nature end up in "Working as Intended." Learn the game as it is, not how you think it should be; you'll actually start to enjoy it.

The game runs fine on the server tick it's set to run on. You're treating the game like WoW, which runs on a 1 second server tick.

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Originally Posted by Lollie

To the origional question. They all take 8 seconds from start of cast to release of rooting for lb3.
Tanks have 5s till rooted, healer have 2s (which means they are rooted the longest), melee/ranged have 3s, casters 3-4s till rooted dependent on ping.
Cast/rooted time is independent of the job specific animation length.
Instant in this game refers to the cast time required, not the time it takes to go in effect.
Wether you think rooting, effect delay, and/or resource dumping on death is "antiquated" or not is personal opinion. Personally I think its a good thing given how scripted this game is, these tools were clearly designed to be used at deliberate points of content, not as "oh ****" buttons.

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Hmm, so monk, ninja, dragoon and samurai would have the same LB3 cast, execution and recovery time? It purely comes down to what they lose and who can recover their DPS quicker, then?

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Originally Posted by Coatl

But the healer limit break's whole point is to use when shit hits the fan. There will never be content where you strategically have to revive an entire party in normal circumstances.

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Not normally, no, but there have been exceptions. A4S and V4S come to mind. Since Ramuh EX came out, the usefulness of healer LB3 has been questionable at best and I mostly see its use when you want to progress in raid and use it to see more mechanics of the fight and attempt them. For saving runs? That's dicey at best; a healer just popping it willy-nilly usually ends up being they use it, then die, and depending when they popped it, ended up just killing the party again needlessly. Very few healers seem to understand when it's actually safe to use it (and likewise, the party anticipate it and move to any safe spots if they are in poor positioning when they died or if they are in poor position now).

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Originally Posted by Coatl

Nah the animation lock is pretty terrible. It gets to the point where no one wants to use DPS LB because the animation lock screws over your whole rotation and just isn'tthat satisfying to use. Healer LB outright makes you a martyr in most situations, as you'll just die to the next mechanic while everyone is getting revived. Tank LB is the most responsive, but given its main purpose it sorta has to be.

Literally no one would complain if they nerfed the potency of melee LB and took away the animation lock. They've buffed healer LB once, they can do it again as it has range from useful to completely worthless in some circumstances due simply to the animation lock.



But the healer limit break's whole point is to use when shit hits the fan. There will never be content where you strategically have to revive an entire party in normal circumstances.

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Agreed, people have too much of an anti - use lb due to the locking and everything you said. The way the game is now is old programing in a modern game, it does not fit when things are such high pace (some move you need to move before you get to see the markers and such, so some instances you need be basically 2 steps ahead, meaning be in a place to dodge 2 different sets of mechanics and anything worth their salt means that is the death of you, no matter where you stand.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

The game runs fine on the server tick it's set to run on. You're treating the game like WoW, which runs on a 1 second server tick.

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No it doesn't and it is part of the reason BLM is more tolerable with the MP removed off foul. You had too much DPS loss due to unlucky server tics, it is simply outdated programing that got overlooked, it does not fit in this game. You can have DPS losses by hitting bane too fast or before SB hitting sidewinder too fast etc, and most likely to have fail festers from the slow server tics.

Server tics is def a big FLAW in this game, and makes a clunkly feel and adds frustrations to those with fast reaction times.

I have no idea how you can defend clear flaws in this game, A LOT OF PEOPLE do not use LBs because of the locking, that alone tells you there is a problem with it.

My ping is high.Mnk LB3 casting time + animation lock costs me at least 5 sec to be able to move again.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

Agreed, people have too much of an anti - use lb due to the locking and everything you said. The way the game is now is old programing in a modern game, it does not fit when things are such high pace (some move you need to move before you get to see the markers and such, so some instances you need be basically 2 steps ahead, meaning be in a place to dodge 2 different sets of mechanics and anything worth their salt means that is the death of you, no matter where you stand.

No it doesn't and it is part of the reason BLM is more tolerable with the MP removed off foul. You had too much DPS loss due to unlucky server tics, it is simply outdated programing that got overlooked, it does not fit in this game. You can have DPS losses by hitting bane too fast or before SB hitting sidewinder too fast etc, and most likely to have fail festers from the slow server tics.

Server tics is def a big FLAW in this game, and makes a clunkly feel and adds frustrations to those with fast reaction times.

I have no idea how you can defend clear flaws in this game, A LOT OF PEOPLE do not use LBs because of the locking, that alone tells you there is a problem with it.

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The only fights I can recall off of the top of my head that you had to move before the markers were Scathach and Calofisteri. Both televised their moves if you watched their bodies and televised what directions for a good 6 seconds before doing the attack with the ground markers going off for a split second and doing damage. Other than that, can literally think of no fights that do that. I can't think of a fight where mechanics happen sooner than 3 seconds apart. They might have resolutions that happen and visually happen, but that's once the game already knows you're dead. They also use animations to hide some of the way the game displays on your end to hide some of this.

To this day, I still see people jump out of AoEs while trying to explain to them that jumping hinders you. The game doesn't update your position until you land. The same people that often say, "but I was out of it." Yeah. You were. If you had run out. You were in the air that time, so you were still in the AoE.

Yes, FFXIV does run on a 3 second server tick. All you need to do to see the server tick is watch your MP bar, TP bar, or HoTs/ DoTs. From one tick to the next, you will count 3 seconds. There are add-ons that actively track the server tick (so BLMs specifically know when their MP regens will hit and can go back into Astral Fire ASAP). For Bane and Sidewinder, it's always been advised to wait a skill in between (you CAN use it sooner, but you run into the risk of not getting the full effect). These also do not rely on the server tick for the game to recognize they are up on the boss. However, do notice they are skills that are oGCDs- skills you can easily hit before even 1 second has elapsed.

Here's something to think on: why are most skills in durations of 3? Regen: 21s; Asylum: 24s; Medica II regen: 30s; Aero III: 24s; Aero II: 18s; Lucid Dreaming: 21s; Thin Air: 12s; Cleric Stance: 15s; Leylines: 30s; Sharpcast: 15s; Thunder 4: 18s/12s; Goad: 30s; Higanbana: 60s; Miasma: 24s; Bio II: 30s; Adloquium+Succor: 30s; Shadow Flare: 15s; Miasma II: 12s; Excog: 45s; cards: 30s. Ugh. Tired of typing these lol. There are exceptions, which I found most to be straight buffs (like healing potency up, effect extentions, stuns) as well as being oGCD. All over time effects are effectively snapshots of what buffs/debuffs you had going and are kept that way until you are forced to refresh them. Also, because of the server tick being 3 seconds, this is why you do not refresh your DoTs before 3 seconds as it is a DPS loss. Recasting, say, Ironjaw when both DoTs are at 4 seconds means you might be losing a whole tick of damage (possibly 2) because of the server tick. There are tons of guides on this, especially in Bard and Summoner ones.

Yeah, having fast actions can definitely make this game frustrating at first. Then you realize you don't need fast reactions to do most things in this game. It's very inclusive. The slower server tick is, oddly enough, meant to make the game easier to play and it actually does. The people that actually suffer are the ones with slower reaction speeds.

The reason I "defend" it is because instead of complaining about a change that may never happen, I learn to adapt to it and take consequences into consideration. I've had an LB kill me once- was a healer LB 3 in Ramuh EX and we learned very quickly there is no saving you in Ramuh EX. If they removed the recovery time, that's cool. That's a nice improvement. It still won't help healers that pop LB3 in Sophia EX during her tilt mechanic and res the entire party into sliding off (had that happen so many times) or fights where they just pick horrible times to LB. Until then, I'm simply just not going complain about it and learn to work with it. Personally, I don't see people withholding LB unless it's a monk and they are the only melee- understandable since the loss of GL hurts them horribly.

I mean, your complaints come across to me the same way people have complained about not being able to heal constantly in monster hunter. It's a design choice. You have every right to complain, just like I have every right to say I think you're silly. You have your opinion; I have mine. However, the thread wasn't about how people felt about LB animation locks, but asking how long, preferrable by frame, it took for each job to cast, execute and recover from LB and see if there was an optimal job to use it. I highly encourage you to make your own thread on that topic.

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