NIN/MNK difficulty?

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Originally Posted by Shamox

Beside being pretty much hardware dependant there's actually way more than simply doing your rotation correctly and using everything on cooldown, you have to adapt and you can optimize your whole rotation (and ninki rotation) depending of each fight, you also have to map every trick attack correctly to get the most rDPS out of it, same goes for enmity management.

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Uh, how does this differ from literally every other job in the game? I have to adjust my opener on Samurai for better optimization on V3S based on Spellblade Holy, for example. Dragoon moves its buffs around to properly align with the raid for "burst phases." Mapping out Trick Attack isn't any different than maintaining Greased Lighting or BotD throughout phase skips. In fact, both of those can be far more cumbersome on specific fights. You seem to be creating this illusion only Ninja has to optimize their rotation based on a fight. Ask a good Black Mage or Summoner the sheer amount of micromanagement that goes into their opener and Ninja's isn't even close.

To answer the OP's question. I would rank Monk ahead of Ninja nowadays in terms of overall difficulty. For the melee in general: Dragoon >= Monk > Ninja > Samurai would be my rankings.

Ninja will always be the most overrated job in "which job is the hardest" arguments.

I'm not weighing in on which is harder of the two as imo it's pretty subjective. I mained a monk last tier and moved over to ninja this tier (our ninja stopped raiding and we couldn't find an equal one to replace him) and having come from monk, ninja was insanely easy and familiar to me, all I had to do was get use to the mudra combos and weaving them.

Give me a dragon however and I'm all "AHH! This is so slow, what the he'll am I doing! Dammit I'm animation locked in an AoE" I won't even get started on my feeble attempts to play casters in savage raids :p

Basically my point Is, are either difficult? No. Is any job. Not really. It's down to what your use to. Faster gcds and positional? You'll have np. Switching over from a whm main that's never played melee? Maybe it'll be a learning experience but you'll get there.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Uh, how does this differ from literally every other job in the game? I have to adjust my opener on Samurai for better optimization on V3S based on Spellblade Holy, for example. Dragoon moves its buffs around to properly align with the raid for "burst phases." Mapping out Trick Attack isn't any different than maintaining Greased Lighting or BotD throughout phase skips. In fact, both of those can be far more cumbersome on specific fights. You seem to be creating this illusion only Ninja has to optimize their rotation based on a fight. Ask a good Black Mage or Summoner the sheer amount of micromanagement that goes into their opener and Ninja's isn't even close.

To answer the OP's question. I would rank Monk ahead of Ninja nowadays in terms of overall difficulty. For the melee in general: Dragoon >= Monk > Ninja > Samurai would be my rankings.

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This was a NIN - MNK comparison.
While most melee rotations are rigid (DRG being the best exemple), NIN (and kinda SAM) offers you to switch combos order at will. Ninki mapping is also a very different thing than just "switching buffs" around.
Comparing TAs mapping to maintaining GL and BotD during phase skips/disengaging situations > ?

I only rejected the fact that monk would be harder than NIN, every melees are pretty easy to pick up and once you can play one decently you probably can play all 4 of them.

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Originally Posted by Shamox

If there was the same number of parses maybe it would be relevant.

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That was a very shallow way to try to discredit perhaps the best way to answer the question. Statistically, once you have a large enough sample size, it doesn't need to get bigger for nothing to change.

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Originally Posted by Shamox

Probably because you can't tell if a NIN is good or bad by only looking at its personal dps.

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So coordinate when you use TA with the rest of your team? I think you've been pretty hard owned by others here.

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Originally Posted by Shamox

This was a NIN - MNK comparison.
[...]
I only rejected the fact that monk would be harder than NIN, every melees are pretty easy to pick up and once you can play one decently you probably can play all 4 of them.

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Qualitatively, do you understand the statistical evidence that was put forth? Why the variance between the median DPS versus top 95th percentile DPS performance is a great answer to measure job difficulty?

As a person that has leveled both would say ninja is the easier to master but more prone to mistakes mob turn at last second, or lag spike and you bunny a mudra. This is alot more damaging then mnk missing pos or even GL dropping. However monk it much harder with fights where GL will run out and learning to keep GL up at all times is harder then huton for ninja. While i would give the crown to mnk being harder to master by a nose to say ninja is in same boat as sam or rdm is just not true. I also leveled rdm and starting on sam and they are far easier to play then ninja.

Think I'll accept the statistics presented here and general opinion that MNK seems to be more difficult because of GL uptime and positionals. I'm surprised because I thought NIN was a pretty busy job with gauge spenders and mudras.

I did a comparison of Alte Roite myself because all Jobs have higher numbers there and there's not as much RNG mechanics (i.e. Basically a target dummy). I also moved the base level up from 50 -> 60 percentile to reduce the amount of parses that are just because people died. Some Jobs are punished more heavily for death than others but that doesn't make their rotation much more difficult. The upper limit is 95%.

Either way the numbers are pretty similar but I think a test with less fight specific variables make for a better comparison of the Jobs and their rotations themselves. Also, it's easy it's also everyone's best fights and thus has the highest upper limit for optimization than the rest.

Here are the results -
SMN = 5,209.6 - 4288.1 = 921.5
BLM = 5,214.7 - 4,336.8 = 877.9
MNK = 5,220.2 - 4,417.7 = 802.5
DRG = 5,067.2 - 4,300.5 = 766.7
SAM = 5,412.5 - 4,647.2 = 765.3
MCH = 5,164.2 - 4,399.0 = 765.2
BRD = 4,924.9 - 4183.1 = 741.8
RDM = 4,882.2 - 4,186.0 = 696.2
NIN = 5,040.8 - 4,351.0 = 689.8

Wow NIN is actually at the bottom. Thanks for taking the time.

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Originally Posted by Raiden_Ki

Think I'll accept the statistics presented here and general opinion that MNK seems to be more difficult because of GL uptime and positionals. I'm surprised because I thought NIN was a pretty busy job with gauge spenders and mudras.

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Tbh the best way would be to try it out for yourself since "difficulty" is subjective. My static MNK mate for example finds that MNK is the easiest meele job out of the 4. He plays all 4 melee jobs and usually pulls orange numbers at fflogs with his MNK.

I don't get though why nearly every thread at the boards here have to end in a Job X VS Job Y war... when it's more a personal thing...
Everyone has a different opinion and feel about "what's more difficult"...