Unclear Primal Elements

Without knowing what type aether was used for the summons its hard to say what aspect some of them are... I'd say all summons are astral though as summoning a diety is about as active as you can get with aether... the arr summons are pretty easy to align to elements but hw and beyond gets a bit tricky... which makes me wonder if the type of aether available influenced the beast tribes depictions of the primals or if they actively sought out those sources to feed their gods particular elemental need....

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Sephirot: Earth and Water (his attacks and such while not a direct call besides Earth Shaker and Storm of Words, all draw inspiration from Kabbalah, connecting to the Word Tree and Knowledge. Trees are a part of nature which is either the primary or secondary aspect of the element of Earth and Water is usually a representative form of Knowledge, think pitchers and the Ewer card. It is also worth noting his original element from VI was actually Blizzard making him the only Triad member not to keep his original element)

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As nice as it would be to neatly divide up all six elements among the Warring Triad, Sephirot's battle simply does not support the idea of his possessing any Water element attack. None of his attacks are even remotely watery, and are color-coded brown and green - the colors which, elsewhere in the game, correspond to Earth and Wind. One of his attacks, Storm of Words, has an explicitly windy look to it - and while storms often do have a water element to them, nothing is watery about Storm of Words.

No, sadly, we have to accept that the Water element is NOT represented among the Warring Triad - and Wind is represented twice. This may make the OCD among us cringe, but it is what it is.

I would similarly argue that there is absolutely nothing "Ice" about Ravana (well, the butterflies cast blizzard, but that's still a stretch). Seriously, there's no need to shoehorn elements into these primals that they clearly don't have, just to achieve some kind of symmetry!

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

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Wait... What!?

No one is debating anything, nor are they shoehorning elements to make a neat little package. We are just stating our opinions about what elements we feel each of the non-original six are. Some reasonings are a bit of a stretch, but all have credence.

In regards to Sephirot, as that was the one you quoted, other people have stated why he appears to be Earth and Water. Earth because he is a tree, but Water because again tree (plant), his arena, and how one attack has a watery animation. I didn't mention any of these, I mentioned his inspiration and connection to Kabbalah and the world tree and knowledge, and how water usually represents knowledge. The attacks I mentioned were only to point out, that besides those two attacks, nothing points to an element. Also you claim to him being a wind elemental is more baseless than those of us claiming he is water, I'm sorry to say. WHM Cure and healing spells are said to be their Water spells, but a majority of the animations appear Wind based, similar to Storm of Words.

Now while it may be true that the Water element isn't represented, though there is evidence against this. There is no proof that the Wind element IS represented twice either.

And in regards to Ravana, and by proxy Bismarck, the added elements are because of the visuals displayed both before and during their battles. There are ice crystals present during his summoning, and as usually stated the blue butterflies. And for Bismarck, though no crystals are seen, to my knowledge, his big attack is lightning based.

With the unique particle effect the moogle weapons have, id almost consider Moogle to be its own element.

Not a huge lore researcher at all, but Sephirot being Earth and Water just makes sense. He's a tree man centered around the concept of growth. Trees need Eartha dn Water to grow. Kind of just makes sense....

Also, I think that Astral and Umbral are less....elements, and more affinities. Like, Fire isn't just fire, but Fire element on a scale of Astral to Umbral. Something can be more umbral fire or astral fire. Sure, a primal can use all elements with an umbral affinity, but that's not Umbral element if you know what I mean.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

Also, I think that Astral and Umbral are less....elements, and more affinities. Like, Fire isn't just fire, but Fire element on a scale of Astral to Umbral. Something can be more umbral fire or astral fire. Sure, a primal can use all elements with an umbral affinity, but that's not Umbral element if you know what I mean.

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Yes, this is explicitly the case and Koji even made extra clear to clarify it double-hard at the recent PAX events. Astral or umbral polarity is a quality of elemental aether. Something can't be just "umbral", it has to be "umbral ice" or "umbral ice-and-wind-combined" or "umbral all-six-elements-equally-balanced".

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Sephirot

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Ein Sof look like water bubbles. Ratzon AoEs have a distinct "splashing" animation. That's two, and the arena is surrounded with water.
The wind attack (his only one as far as I know), on the other hand, has jokingly been referred to as him sneezing on the party and then giving that sneeze life, forming the Storm of Words add. But it's also possible that that is actually what is happening.

But then again, you might just as well be correct about him being Earth-Wind. We don't know for sure, unless we get official confirmation. *shrug* And that's the point of this thread, discussion, not saying "this is definitely how it is" with no word-of-god backing.