My current hypothesis is that Krile was captured and used to create the Resonant by extracting bits of her soul and transfusing them into whoever they wanted to achieve Resonance. There has to be some specific reason they went after Krile and held her where and as long as they did. This does invalidate the "Hypertuned are just failed Resonants" hypothesis, but I'm fine with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenerae
My current hypothesis is that Zenos achieved Resonance either shortly before or after Fordola did; he did not display the abilities he has in Ala Mhigo during our battles at Rhalgr's Reach or Yuzuka Manor and has two Resonant Eyes instead of just one like Fordola. The battle at Yuzuka Manor is more important for this - he has Ame-no-Habakiri there as well, but never uses Art of the Sword...
Hypertuned/Resonant
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08-13-2017, 11:44 PMCilia
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08-14-2017, 01:29 AMBelhiHe plays with us most of the time. Its worth noting even the first time he faces us he blocks all Ydas attacks with just one hand and shatters Y'shtola's shield.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
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08-14-2017, 01:51 AMCeneraeI find that a little difficult to accept, considering in the first encounter he barely considers us worth putting any effort into fighting...and the second time, we're only interesting enough to him for him to want to see what his new toy is like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
We weren't worthy opponents in his eyes, so he was barely trying (and still kicked our butts six ways to sunday). It's not until we fight him in Ala Mhigo that he actually fights us seriously, although I do question why he didn't use his Resonance against us there. -
08-14-2017, 02:47 AMCiliaQuote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
The ultimate point is that while Zenos is an overwhelming opponent in all instances (even our final bout is 4 on 1), he lacks the combat prescience and magical abilities the Resonant Echo is intended to imbue prior to Ala Mhigo. While it is difficult to hit him during the Rhalgr's Reach duel it is possible, and it's not until you sufficiently press him that he pulls out Ame-no-Habakiri at Yuzuka Manor and summarily rips you to shreds. All throughout he shows no supernatural or magical abilities; the best he has is his Unbridled status buff, which is not the same as the Resonant Echo buff Fordola uses and is granted by Ame-no-Habakiri.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenerae
Then you get to Ala Mhigo, and Zenos is using sword arts from enchanted katana and making illusory copies of himself.
There's also the fact Krile was captured sometime during our adventure in Doma; implicitly after our showdown with Zenos at Yuzuka Manor and before our return to Eorzea. As I sincerely believe they needed Krile (or an Echo user, any Echo user would do) to make the Resonant, it would be impossible for Zenos, Fordola, or anyone to achieve Resonance beforehand. Something something attuning souls to the same aetherial wavelength as an Echo user's, something something destabilizing a soul's aetherial wavelength so it can attune itself to others on the fly.
It's true that Zenos is just toying with us during our first two duels, but there's no reason to believe or proof to confirm he had the Resonant Echo back then. He could have just as easily been an unparalleled combatant. The most likely reason he doesn't use the Resonant Echo to utterly overwhelm us during our showdown in Ala Mhigo's throne room is that doing so would make the fight laughably one-sided on his part, and Zenos cared more about getting a good fight out of it than winning. -
08-14-2017, 06:07 AMEnkidohI think it was simply pragmatism - 1.0 made it clear most people awoken to the Echo actually hide their powers fearing persecution from ignorant people (not entirely unjustified either as it turns out), which is why Minfilia set up the Path of the Twelve before the Calamity to provide a sanctuary from persecution for those with the Echo and to research it's powers (so as to better educate Eorzeans). Most of the Path's members were sadly lost in the Calamity or not long thereafter (as a significant number were adventurers), which is why Minfilia reorganized it into the Scions of the Seventh Dawn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
Apart from Minfilia, the only known Scion after the Calamity to have the Echo until Krile was introduced was the player/Warrior of Light, everyone else in the Scions were either just random adventurers who joined after inspired by their success or the Archons (unless you count Una Tayuun and her friends Percevains and Satzfloh who were originally in the Path of the Twelve before the Calamity and rejoined after as Scions suffering amnesia, only to be killed sadly ironically during Livia's attack on the Waking Sands).
And given Minfilia's... ascension... and the Warrior of Light is a very hard man/woman to find at the best of times given our transient nature (and Zenos was more interested in us being a challenger to fight rather than a test subject anyway), it left the Empire with only one remaining possible known Echo user subject that they could easily capture: Krile (which is somewhat ironic given Krile's Echo ability is rather low).
So basically the Empire used Krile as their Echo power lab rat simply as they had no one else, it was pure pragmatism. Of course that doesn't make it any less horrible though. -
08-14-2017, 06:20 AMYianKutkuAlso Arenvald, but I grant that the Empire might not know that Arenvald had the Echo. In fact, that's probably the case; Krile was specifically targeted during the mission she was kidnapped in, while Arenvald was specifically incapacitated due to (ironically) an Echo vision, of Fordola's past. Also I think it was implied that as low as Krile's Echo powers are, Arenvald's is even lower.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
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08-14-2017, 06:42 AMCiliaThe point I was getting at was that Zenos needed an Echo user. It was unlikely to be personal against Krile, but Aulus needed an Echo user to try his procedure and Krile was simply the easiest one for Zenos to get his hands on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
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08-14-2017, 07:52 AMAnonymoose
I'm in agreement that Hypertuned and Resonant have little in common aside from the scientist in charge (who remains one one of my top three suspects for Elidibus's meatsuit, though the Ala Mhigo dialog doesn't seem to fit). The hypertuned seem ... well, as their name suggests, extraordinarily reinforced. Stuffed full of surgical enhancements and drug cocktails. Super-soldier experiments turned into bioweapons. Qyburn with access to an Umbrella lab. (The minion at the very least confirmed he was implanted with magitek.)
The Resonant, meanwhile, seem to be focused on giving the Garleans what they lack - magickal talents - even if it means transfusing the spiritual aether of savages to get there. The laboratories themselves are focused on Resonance, and (much like with the Sahagin elder) it's easy to pick up a few traces of Elidibus's words along the way. But I suspect that Zenos had perhaps tested magickal transfusions before Krile was abducted, and became Resonant after capturing her.
After seeing Zenos wielding what looked like Dark magicks in the trailer, I kept a keen eye on any abilities that seemed out of place for a Garlean and any hint of an Ascian connection. I was all ready to pat myself on the back for seeing it coming when Zenos motioned to the throne and a figure in white stepped out from behind it ... but then it was just Aulus, lol. (UNLESS...!) Recall that he comments that Y'shtola's magicks can't keep him out, and in Doma infuses multiple blades with magicks, not just the Ame-no-Habakiri. (This was before Fordola even delivered Krile.)
While Zenos specifically demands Krile captured (basing his assumptions about the Echo on Baelsar's notes and likely Elidibus's intervention), I can't say whether any old Echo user would have done the same or if she specifically had a desired effect. After all, the Resonant are often focused on seeing aether, which is how Krile reacted when awakening to the Echo.
I also squint inquisitively at that the symbol in the eye has twelve points. -
08-14-2017, 08:01 AMGrayve
We don't even fully understand the limits of the Echo yet. Maybe Garlean superscience will give us some more details in the coming patches. I find it odd that no one seems to be studying the Echo. Even the Scions seem content to just use it rather then try and master it.
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08-14-2017, 08:35 AMRoclQuote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
Still catching up, but I want to point out this wrong--Ala Mhigo isn't the first time he uses these attacks against us. "The Time Between the Seconds" i.e. our match vs Zenos in Yanxia, he displays all of these characteristics. In fact the very first thing he does after unsheathing Ame-no-Habakiri is use "Art of the Sword!" His illusory copies are even called "Dark Reflections" and can be defeated in this solo instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
Even in Rhalgr's Reach he's using Vein Splitter, calling down copies of swords (both the Storm and the Swell, actually) and what-not. Whether these are used via aether or not is, again, debatable, but honestly it feels that way. Gaius just kind of dropped some flaming ceruleum on the ground and used Terminus Est. Regula used Terminus Est and deployed turrets, iirc (his Ceruleum Servant is a whole 'nother can of worms, but I digress)
Vein Splitter, in particular, calls to mind of Nael van Darnus' initial use of Thermionic Beam in 1.1x; which was our original clue that she was no longer bound by the Garlean's genetic aetheric deficiencies. In this case he shoots a great blast from Bradamante which causes aether to erupt from the ground and severs an Aetherial vein. This is a very shoddy ground to argue that Zenos already has the Resonant procedure as of 4.0, but I suspect that Fordola probably wasn't Aulus' first run regardless. Given Zenos' big speech about wondering if Fordola was strong enough to survive the procedure I have no doubt he underwent Resonant procedure twice and that helps serve his proof as "I'm super tough guys."
Something that needs to be pointed out, I feel, is that Krile has something rather unique to her (in terms of NPC): she has the Blessing of Light. Whether Garlemald or Aulus knew this is debatable but it's a key difference between, like, her and Arenvald.
Personally, with very little evidence to help me, my headcanon is that the Resonant probably manifests as differently as the Echo (being that it's all but certainly an artificial version of it). We know that some Echo-users can't walk in the memories of others, and some can't listen to the whispers of a person's soul (omnilinguism)--that is, unless this has been retconned since 1.0 which is something I feel Moose might know better than I. It's possible that Zenos' Resonant didn't allow the 'anti-Echo' seeing of the future or something. I feel like we'll learn more as time goes on--I hope anyways. It's just as likely too, I feel, that Zenos' Resonant did allow him to predict his opponents attacks or something but maybe he decided against using it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯