4.05 - Tenacity Vs Non-Tenacity Builds

Side note : anyone is however free to meld and choose the gear he feels it's the best for him.
I'm not here to say that's there's only one possible choice and that if you don't take this one, you're bad.
I'm as well wondering things.

And I right now don't know how to position myself with tenacity so.
That's why I want to see more.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Not saying "dps rules", just "see when and where tenacity could actually be a good choice".
Just like my previous post on piety for healers.

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Part of the problem is your examples largely relate to when you're over geared for an encounter. In anything less you're going to have a smaller percentage gain acting on a smaller absolute dps number.

yea i swapped out all my left side dh for tenacity for prog. Will probably stick with tenacity until we start reaching the threshhold where crit becomes king again

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

This isn't a obsession with dps, this is just trying to see it from an optimal point of view.
No news when I say, the more dps you have, the less time the encounter will be.

When you talk about mitigation, you have to see the content you're doing and if it's necessary to have.
If you're not taking a huge amount of damage/mitigation isn't that much required)/ healers doesn't have to heal that much (and so on), then you'll somehow just throw theses ressources in dps.

We could take example. Let's say you are doing lvl 70 dungeons with large pulls.
In that case, Tenacity could be really good cause in there, the tank has to mitigate the damage as much as possible.

Let's take an Extreme primal but being overgeared.
Even tank buster shouldn't deal that much damage, then tenacity shouldn't be a thing.

Not saying "dps rules", just "see when and where tenacity could actually be a good choice".
Just like my previous post on piety for healers.

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Except that even on those "low damage" scenarios, 8% less taken is still 8% less healing required. In any case where 8% or more of the healers on-gcd abilities are heals, and atleast some of them are used to heal the tank, it's going to be almost impossible not to be a net gain on damage (while also making everything "smoother" and being less prone to people screwing up/random crap happening.

The only time it would be a loss is in content so easy that the healers don't need to actively, on-gcd heal the tank at all. At that point, do you really need to optimize to that point? I guess some would say yes, and more power to them, but in reality it seems like a crazy choice not to go tenacity at this point.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

This isn't a obsession with dps, this is just trying to see it from an optimal point of view.

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I would suggest "optimal" only matters when it makes the difference between a clear and not-a-clear. 1.5% dps on a tank is not likely to drive that difference except in the most razor thin situations. This is a situation most of us won't really be in (In my experience, the vast majority of players could stand to worry far less about optimal melds for their DPS and a lot more about how to not stand in fire and maintain uptime) This is not the 2.x strength vs. vit assessories argument where the very substantial DPS gain was a true boon to the party.

Old content, over-geared content, easy content...all essentially irrelevant to discussions of "optimal". If you run Susano EX in 6 months, who cares if your melds are allegedly "optimal"? Nobody.

My only thought on your build is that I was under the impression that you could not overmeld T6 materia, did I misunderstand something along the way?

Also I plan to solve this by going with 2 sets similar to ARR. One set in which I aim for maximum tenacity and then a set of crafted accessories with as much Direct Hit as I can pour into them.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

This isn't a obsession with dps, this is just trying to see it from an optimal point of view.

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You're trying to say that half a constant tank stance with no loss to your personal dps for having it has less impact than the 10-15 points you'd get going for the "optimal" direct hit build.

That's not trying to look at it from an optimal PoV. That's an obsession with dps.

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Originally Posted by Dement

My only thought on your build is that I was under the impression that you could not overmeld T6 materia, did I misunderstand something along the way?

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You can only overmeld one t6 materia. Anymore have to be 5's.

Something I have been thinking about though. Perhaps the math people know better than me but It seems like penta-melded accessories are the way to go. I know they're a pain to make but it looks like you're trading 2 str and less than 10 secondardy stat off the base in the drop from 340 to 320 for 76 of another secondary stat(dh, or tenacity mostly). It seems like that trade favors crafted accessories every time, am I wrong?

All of the comments here are interesting. As a tank, I stepped into Stormblood with a focus on Tenacity. Of course, I'm always questioned why I do it.

In a post some time ago, I noted that healers were having a grand good time doing more dps than healing me. Looks like Holy and Gravity are still beast on the aoe, more than my "Total Eclipse" and "Quietus".

I removed Tenacity and am trying the Direct Hit thing, and I find myself needing that extra healing from Convalescence (I didn't use it much with Tenacity). I don't have access to much Tier 6 Tenacity materia now, but I will be going back to Tenacity, even if I have to meld Tier 5s until I get 6s.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

You're trying to say that half a constant tank stance with no loss to your personal dps for having it has less impact than the 10-15 points you'd get going for the "optimal" direct hit build.

That's not trying to look at it from an optimal PoV. That's an obsession with dps.



You can only overmeld one t6 materia. Anymore have to be 5's.

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last expansion, I never saw any Vs overmelded.

I might go for some VIs in slot #2 this time around though because they made them much more accessible early on. I'm already swimming in them. Around 30% for that first meld I can deal with, considering how VIs FAR outclass Vs, unlike Vs vs IV.