I love the new warrior but....

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

And throwing out cheesy provokes followed by Shirk has the issue of reducing your current threat by 25%, so a DPS catching up to you is still coming close.

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I'll have to read tooltip again. I thought it just gave 25% not transfers.

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Originally Posted by DrCynapsis

I'll have to read tooltip again. I thought it just gave 25% not transfers.

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Lol first word. "Diverts 25% of enmity..."

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

Lets say you are the off tank on a raid. It is your job, in some fights, to stay second in agro. Lakshmi for instance will throw a lot of mechanics at whomever is 2nd top enmity. If you die, or just start falling behind, it's very easy to provoke the boss, then shirk 25% of that enmity back to the MT. Boss will rarely even land a blow on you, and you are back to #2 hate spot without wasting your DPS time using a BB combo.

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Nonono, what has worked well for me in that fight is shirk the MT and then provoke, the MT will then have much more enmity when he provokes the boss back. More enmity for both.
So by doing what you do, let us say the MT have 100 and you have 80 in wnmity and you provoke and then shirk back, so the MT will then have 125 or so in potency while you will be down at 75-76.
With what I do and let us keep the numbers at the same level, 100 for the MT and 80 for me, I shirk bringing the MT to 120 in enmity, I then provoke bringing me to 121, the MT then takes it back. Sure the MT has a little less then for you but I got more... so in what way would I need to do a BB combo here? In fact a BB combo would mess things up.

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Originally Posted by Soraki-Muppe

Nonono, what has worked well for me in that fight is shirk the MT and then provoke, the MT will then have much more enmity when he provokes the boss back. More enmity for both.
So by doing what you do, let us say the MT have 100 and you have 80 in wnmity and you provoke and then shirk back, so the MT will then have 125 or so in potency while you will be down at 75-76.

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MT [100] / OT [80] -> Provoke -> MT [100] / OT [101] -> Shirk OT -> MT [75] / OT [126]

vs

MT [100] / OT [80] -> Shirk OT -> MT [75] / OT [105] -> Provoke -> MT [106] / OT [105]

Am I missing something here?

e: Ah wait, Shirk the MT. So:

MT [100] / OT [80] -> Shirk MT -> MT [120] / OT [60] -> Provoke -> MT [120] / OT [121]

Still worse and a much smaller gap, unless I'm still missing something here.

If I died and just got rezed, using Shirk is not really doing anything, I'm starting at zero enmity. If I died and want to get back into the OT duties, I need to Provoke first and then Shirk. Yes, I should not be dying to begin with, but sometimes things happen, some healer may mess up, or be busy healing people. Hell I may @#$ up and forget to use my click action before a fiery Lakshmi off tank focused mechanic. Point being: that is when I want that combo the most.

I *could* just provoke and use a low enmity combo, too, I will likely lose agro next MT attack, but that runs still the risk of me keeping agro if the MT is feeling comfortable and no longer using agro combo and maybe even in DPS stance.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Snip

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What I was talking about is if your OT in Lakshmi where you want to keep your enmity at nr2 when your OT, it is more about building your lead over the dps so you can do your dps combo instead of having to do enmity combos. The MT takes back the boss landing it around MT122 OT121, this also require that the OT does not do any enmity combos here since you will be close but as long as you watch it there is no problems.
In a normal fight it would be during a tank swap that new MT provoke, old MT shirk for a bigger lead in enmity.

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

If I died and just got rezed, using Shirk is not really doing anything, I'm starting at zero enmity. If I died and want to get back into the OT duties, I need to Provoke first and then Shirk. Yes, I should not be dying to begin with, but sometimes things happen, some healer may mess up, or be busy healing people. Hell I may @#$ up and forget to use my click action before a fiery Lakshmi off tank focused mechanic. Point being: that is when I want that combo the most.

I *could* just provoke and use a low enmity combo, too, I will likely lose agro next MT attack, but that runs still the risk of me keeping agro if the MT is feeling comfortable and no longer using agro combo and maybe even in DPS stance.

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Okay if you mess up and die then a simple provoke will have to do, your doing less damage anyway and less damage = less enmity. Then you can shirk + provoke later on to help the MT increase enmity while having you as a close second... unless you happen to die again before having the chance to do that. Also you should to your lower enmity combos anyway since you do not plan on keeping the boss. If your MT is in dps stance and generating less enmity that shirk after a provoke might land you 3rd in enmity instead of 2 if the dps is dealing a lot of damage.
What I am doing has worked for me without any problems.
EDIT: Another thing that could work well if you have died but to not want to be to close to the MT in enmity might be OT provoke, MT shirk OT then provokes back, then OT shirk MT. A little longer but if we have 100 as a basis this would land OT around 94-95 and MT around 158-159. But the math, MT 100, OT 0 --> OT provoke = MT100 OT 101 --> MT shirk = MT 75 OT126 --> MT provoke = MT 127, OT 126 --> OT shirk = MT 158,5 OT 94,5.

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Originally Posted by Soraki-Muppe

Why would you shirk after the provoke? Makes no sense, personally I shirk before the provoke to first buff the MT and in turn my own enmity vs the dps.

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Mostly because I don't want to take the lead, and if I shirk before the provoke, I risk doing so. Shirking after the provoke instead bolsters the MT's enmity by 25%.

Not saying that I can't take the boss deciding to throw an auto-attack my way (even a tankbuster is fine). But the DPS that rely on positionals might get annoyed, and the healers might not be expecting a switch in main target.