Proposed Warrior Buffs

@aleph_null It was like that in Heavensward. No reason for it to not be now. The whole reason for these changes to make WAR the tank DPS powerhouse.

@Airget I like the idea of removing the Beast Gauge cost from Upheaval. You make a good comparison with WARs and PLDs off GCDs.

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Originally Posted by Nioulan

@Venjenz There's practically no choice as it stands, you'll always want to do Eye/Path/Path. You would only use BB if you were close to losing aggro, otherwise you would Eye/Path/Path. Also making Heavy Swing generate 10 Beast Gauge would be weird. On fights like Lakshmi, you're already overflowing with gauge. Adding 10 gauge more overall wouldn't fix anything.

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Adding more gauge lowers the time it takes to recover from a stance switch. Personally, I think the only needed change at all that is WAR specific is adding a stun/silence to Onslaught and lowering the Inner Release timer.

I tossed in the Heavy Swing 10 beast thing to appease people who think the stance swap should be cost free. I think the cost is a good thing and provides something to consider when tanking. And really, it only matters switching from Defiance to Deliverance, since everyone blows the entire gauge in Deliverance before switching back to Defiance.

But Onslaught should have a stun/silence, maybe an enmity modifier like Provoke. Make it a proper Intercept.

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Originally Posted by Nioulan

@aleph_null It was like that in Heavensward. No reason for it to not be now. The whole reason for these changes to make WAR the tank DPS powerhouse.

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I don't think that was a good design though, if anything this is one of the changes that I like about 4.x war. Having our enmity combo being the strongest combo made it difficult to do our optimal dps rotation as an off tank without screwing up the main tank.

@Venjenz

My two goals with these changes to WAR is to make their DPS higher due to a lack of raid utility and to make them more fluid again.

Being penalized by stance switching is the exact opposite of fluid. Yes, PLDs are penalized too but no where near to the degree WAR is. Most of WARs damage, if not all of it, is locked behind the beast gauge. PLD only has 2 abilities (which are defensive abilities mind you) to use their gauge on and it's real easy for PLD to get back the gauge they lost. With WAR, you have to spend at least one full combo to get what you lost, if not two.

Adding a stun/silence to Onslaught wouldn't change a thing. Yoshida-san wants those kinds of effects to be pure utility with no damage behind them. Otherwise they wouldn't have removed the silence from Spirits Within. Inner Release definitely needs it's recast timer lowered to 60 seconds. The other two tanks are buffed more often than WAR is.

@aleph_null Eh, I suppose. I'm trying to bring back 3.X WAR as much as possible since it was arguably the best designed job in 3.X.

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Originally Posted by Nioulan

The other two tanks are buffed more often than WAR is.

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Someone else mentioned that as well, but for all purposes a war in deliverance is going to have a near constant 25% damage buff (5% delv + 20% eye). FoF and BW have more uptime than Berserk, sure, but are you certain the other tanks are - overall - buffed more often? I don't recall where that post went

@whiskeybravo Yes, especially PLD. PLD has two buffs which are on a 60 second cooldown. DRK's can be used every 40 seconds. Where as WAR's can only be used every 60 seconds and 120 seconds. Just because WARs have an overall +25% damage increase, doesn't mean they're doing more damage. I mean, the numbers speak for themselves.

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Originally Posted by Nioulan

@whiskeybravo Yes, especially PLD. PLD has two buffs which are on a 60 second cooldown. DRK's can be used every 40 seconds. Where as WAR's can only be used every 60 seconds and 120 seconds. Just because WARs have an overall +25% damage increase, doesn't mean they're doing more damage. I mean, the numbers speak for themselves.

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Didn't say anything about damage, just regarding their uptime on buffs. The "numbers" are not really that far apart outside of a few top players, though I agree in general that war should be higher given their lack of utility.

These buffs are way too much. Currently, the players pushing WAR to its limits are doing nearly what a DPS does. This is just going to make it even worse, and it's probably going to disrupt balance in an even worse way than it is now. WAR doesn't need straight up potency buffs. It needs changes to help all players get more out of it.