DRK Mains, what are you melding?

Hey Noz,

tenacity is just a niche. Even if you go for full tenacity build, the result will be damage dealed ~+5% and recieved ~-5%, while DH will give you around 7-10% damage increase.
Tenacity will NOT significantly reduce the heals needed, nor will it save you from a tank buster if you haven't saved a CD.
Tenacity is 'nice' for progression, but once you cleared a duty, it becomes more or less obsolete.

You should already be overgeared, your item level is more important than tenacity. If you die to tank busters, you haven't figured out your CD timing and/or your healers failed.

Hey Ariane,

Thank you for the explanation, I have further question though. Is it not better for tanks to have 5% less damage received than to have 7-10% damage increase?

I didnt know that tenacity will not significantly reduce the heals needed. In that regards, is determination will be better stat for reducing the heal needed?

I am not overgeared yet but i think i understand what youre saying. If i go full tenacity with my current gears (left and right side) i will end up with 1745 tenacity (using ariyala site as reference). But if i have all 340 gears with tenacity stat (this will be a mixed between augmented lost allagan and genji gears) and put all STR on right side and all direct hit on the left side, I still will end up with 1712 tenacity.

If you go full augmented lost allagan gears or full genji gears, however, you will only have around 1200 tenacity

It's simply not worth it to go for a tenacity build, any damage taken that may need reducing can be easily done by cooldowns. Damage is king and DH is wearing the crown for tanks.

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Originally Posted by NozDeathlos

Is it not better for tanks to have 5% less damage received than to have 7-10% damage increase?

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Once you've cleared a duty and get more comfortable with the fight (farm), your damage and CD management is everything. I guess you know that tank stance is mostly off outside of pull, for most speed kills/weekly clears. Your damage > recieved damage.

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I didnt know that tenacity will not significantly reduce the heals needed. In that regards, is determination will be better stat for reducing the heal needed?

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Like I said in my last post, the increase is ~5%. 5% doesn't change the fact that you might need a strong heal here and there. In addition, every heal and attack in this game has +-5% variable. This tier, tenacity is pretty weak.

Also, tenacity doesn't really increase the healing recieved, as long as the heal isn't casted by yourself. You don't heal yourself, that's the healer's job.

Determination only increases your damage dealed, but doesn't reduce damage recieved. Yet, you get 'more' damage per DET point than per TEN point. I think it was about +0.1% dmg inc for 17 DET pts or 22 TEN pts.

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I am not overgeared yet but i think i understand what youre saying. If i go full tenacity with my current gears (left and right side) i will end up with 1745 tenacity (using ariyala site as reference). But if i have all 340 gears with tenacity stat (this will be a mixed between augmented lost allagan and genji gears) and put all STR on right side and all direct hit on the left side, I still will end up with 1712 tenacity.

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First of all: You never ever meld secondary stats in your accessories, except overmelded (first meld is still STR).

Next; what I mean with 'overgeared': Your current item level should already exceed the minimum item level of [insert any current content] duty. The higher your item level, the higher your armor/defense - which is the most important aspect here. Don't lose your sight on tenacity, like I said its difference are marginal.

Once your item level is high enough, even without tank stance you recieve so few damage, just like a tank on minimum item level in tank stance.

edit: Everything above should be taken under certain circumstances. If your DPS does not exceed 2k and/or your healer does pretty high damage, or you are even uncomfortable in content, consider using tank stance and maybe even TEN melds.

The point is: if you can't make use of a tool given to you (DirectH), better take a tool others can make use of (Tenacity).

Ive been doing things wrong then:D I had always put secondary stat for the accessories and focused too much on tenacity. I will try to put direct hit on left side and str on accessories and see how it goes for me. Thanks for the input!

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Originally Posted by NozDeathlos

In that regards, is determination will be better stat for reducing the heal needed?

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Just a clarification. Det does not increase heals you receive. The wording is a little funny. If a whm equips Det, they will heal 'harder' because heals run a similar calc to damage. Det has no effect on how much damage you take or heals you receive. Only your outgoing numbers. A better way to think of det is 'increases power of your actions' which happens to include heals you cast. Its not defensive at all. If a whm equips Det, their damage spells will hit harder and their heals will hit harder. Its just a 'power' stat essentially.

The only stat that reduces damage is defense/magic defense and to a small degree, Ten. If you are struggling to survive the only things you can do are get higher ilvl gear (more defense/Magic Defense and HP) and improve your active mitigation (timing cooldowns before tankbusters hit etc)

First welcome to tanking! It’s a lot of fun when you get the hang of it. To answer your question, tenacity as of right now is an ineffective stat. It’s yields are too low to justify using it for melds. However crit and direct hit are the way to go on the left side. Mostly direct hit. Direct hit allows us to land crits more frequently. So for example instead of hitting 6000 to 8000 roughly on DA Bloodspiller, you’re hitting upwards of 13000-18000 more often.

Strength right side, and whatever stat I am lacking in that isn't Direct Hit because stat weights for tanks are a mess for left side...

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The point is: if you can't make use of a tool given to you (DirectH), better take a tool others can make use of (Tenacity).

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That's an interesting point. So for someone like me who is not a good player and struggling with ex/savage maybe tenacity build is fit for purpose? However i will try the DH build as you and others have pointed out

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To answer your question, tenacity as of right now is an ineffective stat..Direct hit allows us to land crits more frequently.

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Thanks, is there an official guide on the effectiveness and interactions of the stats values ?it's not obvious for me from the stats description that DH affects crits.

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Just a clarification. Det does not increase heals you receive. The wording is a little funny

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Thanks for the clarification, I guess i got misled, since it says "affects amount of HP restored by healing spells". Actually, it's the ingame descriptions that got me think: Hey, tenacity is the king for tanks!:)

Direct hit, STR in right side, and one skillspeed materia to ensure GCD is 0.01 seconds shorter.