Royal Menagerie is hard but how you would expect in RPGs

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

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I agree with you, but the problems at both ends of your post: People have to learn it while annoying people that already learnt it.

Said people then get annoyed and leave because they can't spare precious time helping people learn, it's endemic of humans unfortunately.

It's a little different than Ex Primals or Raids because this is MSQ, you're not signing up for a challenge and know that going in you're trying to clear basic content, that's where most of the problems stemming from imo.

All in, it took me 2 different groups and 12 total pulls to get past this. 8 pulls in group 1, 4 pulls in group 2. I do not remember the exact numbers from Heavensward [correcting memory] Steps of Faith but I remember it being far more of a chore to get through it.
It is not that the groups I was in sucked, each group by the 3rd pull was getting the boss down to about 15% each time. Most frequent issue, a Healer would blow a mechanic and remaining Healer would not be able to keep up and failed to use Healer LB3.

Given the number of unique mechanics involved, this fight as it currently is, would be very difficult to learn for a new player because each mechanic has a different telegraph to learn. We, the experienced players, have seen them all before but new players have not.
This is common, I was in the 61 dungeon levelling my PLD, did DRG for MSQ, and the final boss has a stack telegraph. Both the SCH and SAM did not know that telegraph and ran away from other people each time they got it. The BRD and I chased them around the arena to try and save their lives. We succeeded 3 / 4 times, poor SAM bought once.

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Originally Posted by ChameleonMS

Given the number of unique mechanics involved, this fight as it currently is, would be very difficult to learn for a new player because each mechanic has a different telegraph to learn. We, the experienced players, have seen them all before but new players have not.
This is common, I was in the 61 dungeon levelling my PLD, did DRG for MSQ, and the final boss has a stack telegraph. Both the SCH and SAM did not know that telegraph and ran away from other people each time they got it. The BRD and I chased them around the arena to try and save their lives. We succeeded 3 / 4 times, poor SAM bought once.

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How new of a player are you if youre fighting the level 70 storyline boss? If you used job and story skip potions, isnt it on you to learn about the things you jumped? If you dont know a mechanic(which is fine - we all had to learn), cant you pay attention to the other people when they either tell you or show you what to do? Or ask questions if you still dont get it? I did this fight blind with no mechanics explained(party was half first timers), and when he started charging up a big "tidal wave" attack i looked at what everyone else did, and i went and stood by them. Sure enough, he punted me 90% of the way across the platform but not all the way off. If you didnt know the stack marker at level 61(which you should have because it was heavily featured as recently as final steps of faith at level 60), shouldnt you have learned it by the time Susano uses it on you? Arent you used to it when Shinryu does it? Theyre all the same marker. Him mimicking primal abilities from level 50 shouldnt be confusing anyone. We've been getting thrown off the battle platform since titan at level 35, thats plenty of time to learn that you either need to dodge the mechanic or get far enough from the edge not to get pushed over. And unlike titan, you can still be resed here. Im sure the veterans of this game could be better at teaching some of these things, but the "new" players need to be willing and able to learn.

I'm honestly not all that bothered by the current complexity of Shinryu, particularly since I feel that it does pale in comparison to the Extremes by a wide and far margin at present. However I also was not overly bothered by the first Steps of Faith and was disappointed that the original version wasn't somehow worked into an Extreme down the road. With that said if there comes a point where not enough people are capable of beating it, I don't see a small nerf as a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

How new of a player are you if your fighting the level 70 storyline boss? If you used job and story skip potions, isnt it on you to learn about the things you jumped?

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How new possible? They could have as little as 1 week of experience, the assuming jump potion usage, SB story line takes about 3-7 days of dedicated play to work through. Without raiding experience, not knowing mechanics is overwhelming. I will give the players the benefit of the doubt, as all the mechanics in the Shinryu are not previously displayed during the dungeons/trial of SB.
e.g. Diamond Dust (If you have never done Shiva). The tail telegraph is somewhat difficult to see when it covers the Blue squares.

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Originally Posted by Enla

With that said if there comes a point where not enough people are capable of beating it, I don't see a small nerf as a bad thing.

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So very true.

I really hope they don't change the fight, it is really the only fight where I felt any sense of accomplishment mechanically. I had to actually go a couple of attempts before I got a feel for the fight which isn't real common in MSQ fights. I think their mistake is the fact that every other MSQ fight up until that point strat can be summed up as "dodge stuff" where you don't need any real experience in the fight to be able to do it flawlessly

This just proves what I have been saying for 1 year. Players are so over geared while progressing to endgame. Then the said player gets to endgame and cant preform at the level they should be because they have never been challenged. Easy way to fix this is stop running unsynced content on older bosses, take time to actually learn your rotation and study enemey attacks and run a few dungeon with a party of 4 on min i level sync settings, this will fix your issue within a month
Having trouble healing? run pharos sirius Min i level sync
Having trouble tanking ? run Amdapor keep Min i level sync
Having trouble DPS? Run antitower Min i level sync
Dungeons are supposed to teach a player how to effectively handle a trial such shinryiu but since players are overgeared they dont actually understand their own capabilities when put to the test. The only way to get better at the game is to increase the difficulity yourself and stop getting these " clears" unsynced

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Originally Posted by ChameleonMS

How new possible? They could have as little as 1 week of experience, the assuming jump potion usage, SB story line takes about 3-7 days of dedicated play to work through. Without raiding experience, not knowing mechanics is overwhelming. I will give the players the benefit of the doubt, as all the mechanics in the Shinryu are not previously displayed during the dungeons/trial of SB.
e.g. Diamond Dust (If you have never done Shiva). The tail telegraph is somewhat difficult to see when it covers the Blue squares.

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This might just be something we disagree on. If you payed to skip playing a big portion of the game and go straight to the high levels, i dont really have any sympathy for you if you have a hard time figuring out how to play at those high levels. Sure, the tail marker could probly be more obvious. But if youre learning from your mistakes this fight still shouldnt take more then a couple tries. If you arent learning and keep making the same mistakes again and again you might have a bigger issue then this fight being too hard.

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Originally Posted by Blanchimont

All current four parts of normal Omega are easier. It took me 2 attempts to clear O2 and 3 to clear O3. It took me more attempts to clear the Royal Menagerie than the entire first section of Omega. The hardest part is for the healers to keep up with the damage output. The rest of it was simple and far easier than the Royal Menagerie.

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I cleared the new raid tier's first three floors blind without any wipes. I was DRK, and the rest were PLD, WHM, AST, DRG, MNK, BRD, and RDM. 4th floor took me the next day after 1 DPS left during 3rd or 4th attempt on launch day of Omega: Deltascape.

Royal Menagerie is not hard. I don't even remember the fight because the group I did it with cleared it in two attempts. The first attempt we wiped to the wave thing, but after that I honestly couldn't even tell you anything about the rest of the fight besides there being one of those real time action click things during it.