The way wariors feel about pld

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

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Actually, the 2.x meta was terrible. It wasn't just the public perception that PLD was the only viable "MT", it was the fact that a lot of content could be run with a solo tank, and you had your "OT" WAR switch off to MNK so that you could push your group dps. Granted, there are exceptions to every rule, and groups were playing around with PLD "OTs" and WAR "MTs" in Savage Second Coil. But a lot of that didn't filter down to general public perception.

Moreso than true balance, how the playerbase perceives balance matters. In ARR and early HW, the general perception was that PLD was the one "true" tank. People got endlessly hung up on the idea that WAR "took more damage", without really understanding the how Defiance worked compared to Shield Oath. Gordias was important, not only because it disintegrated the concepts of "MT" and "OT" and merged them into something more amorphous and fair, but also proved to the community at large that you didn't need to bring a PLD to clear content. There were other "real" tanks out there. It was also a wake up call and made many tanks realise that they were not entitled to their raid spots, and that they actually had to contribute to dps like everyone else on the team.

I don't mind balance shifts. I personally think that FoTM balance is a bit lazy, but it's the general approach to balance everywhere you go. Discussions on how any job was historically maligned probably factors far less into developer design than does clear rates and usage statistics. I don't even mind the lack of historical accuracy in some of these accounts that people are parroting off of reddit and elsewhere, because anyone who knows how to use a search function can see what the situation was really like two years ago. But try not to make this into a meme. 3.x was filled with WARs posturing and claiming that their near universal usage was the result of "superior design" and that we should just "buff the other tanks" to their level. 4.0 is starting out the gate with PLDs claiming that balance inequalities were brought about "for our sins" and are spouting pretty much the same thing. It gets old fast.

I don't know why Warriors are claiming foul the most.....I think Dark Knights got the biggest shaft this expansion.

Blood gauge skills should be OGCD. And I am still irked that the Blood Gauge has no associated use for HP sustain tanking. That's crap. And no skill synergy or revisions at all with Living Dead. Ugh!

Having played both a lot in the current EX primals, I do enjoy playing WAR more. But man is it fun using all the ogcds PLD has, even if their standard "rotation" isn't as interesting/engaging.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Given the changes we've seen, the intent so far seems to push tanks and healers towards their intended gameplay.

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You mean they're trying to push tanks and healers away from playing the game in general, which is why we're seeing basically double the DPS queues that we normally do. Yes, Samurai and Red Mage came out and a lot of people are playing it. This does not change the fact that a lot of tanks have hung up their role and moved on to do other things.

I'm sure i'll get a bunch of replies with, "Oh i'm still tanking hur dur. " I really don't care that you're still tanking, I know plenty of friends who were tanks who are no longer tanks. I also know it doesn't take much to glance at the forums and spot all the "I quit" threads.

I for one am sticking to my Warrior, I hope they do right and fix many of the issues all tanks are having and create a more fun experience.. It just feels like they're punishing us, so little of us play tanks as it is.. It saddens me though that a few of my friends have basically just stopped playing all together.. Fingers crossed for 4.1 :/

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Given the changes we've seen, the intent so far seems to push tanks and healers towards their intended gameplay. That is, tanks being defensive and healers focusing on casting heals. Chances are they're trying to ensure the existing tanks and healers play along those lines before working on new tank and healing classes. Adding new classes when your gameplay paradigms are not set in place is a really bad idea, so I can see the logic behind the devs' actions.

That being said, I'm sure adjustments are coming our way next patch, but whether it'll be a PLD nerf or a WAR/DRK buff is up in the air.

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I mean, these new ex primals are the easiest yet to tank in full dps stance. I still tank every dungeon boss in dps stance, doesn't feel that much different to me.

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Originally Posted by Poken

You mean they're trying to push tanks and healers away from playing the game in general, which is why we're seeing basically double the DPS queues that we normally do. Yes, Samurai and Red Mage came out and a lot of people are playing it. This does not change the fact that a lot of tanks have hung up their role and moved on to do other things.

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Yup, tanking is boring now. At least maxing our damage was a form of personal progress. What do we have to strive for now? Popping a cd when you see a cast bar and moar flash? Woopie. People play to have fun....all the tanks leaving should tell you something. Everquest tanking is no longer fun.

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Originally Posted by Poken

You mean they're trying to push tanks and healers away from playing the game in general, which is why we're seeing basically double the DPS queues that we normally do.

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If I may mount my high horse for a moment, I wasn't the one embracing gameplay that hovered between unorthodox and really unintended. Specially in the context of tanks, I've been calling this since 3.0/3.1, when everyone and their mother started treating Shield Oath/Grit/Defiance like some sort of design flaw or disease that shouldn't be there because it hurts t3h d33pz. On a personal note, Stormblood seems to be pushing tanks in a direction I already followed, so the changes are no skin off my back.

And if being forced to play defensively is enough to make people quit the role (a tank having to focus on defense; what a concept!), I'll question why they rolled a tank in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Hruodig

I mean, these new ex primals are the easiest yet to tank in full dps stance. I still tank every dungeon boss in dps stance, doesn't feel that much different to me.

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Our experiences have been different, then. I've seen tanks get demolished when trying to not use their defensive stances since Doma Castle. Haven't tried any of the EX primals yet, so I'll take your word for it.

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Originally Posted by Gravton

Yup, tanking is boring now. At least maxing our damage was a form of personal progress. What do we have to strive for now? Popping a cd when you see a cast bar and moar flash? Woopie.

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You can and definitely should maximize damage while being defensive; you're just doing it in tank stance.

Non-sequitur:

If lack of options is a legit complaint on WAR (to me it isn't because all you lose out when full-timing Defiance is Fel Cleave, Decimate and the TP recovery from Equilibrium), I'll throw you a bone:

68 Shake It Off - Removed
68 Nihilism (New ability) - Allows the use of one ability corresponding to the opposite of your current stance at double the Beast Gauge cost. Can only be executed while under the effect of Defiance or Deliverance. Switching stances will cancel this effect. Duration: 10s. Cooldown: 60s.

So every minute you can use Fel Cleave/Decimate while in Defiance or Inner Beast/Steel Cyclone while in Deliverance, but it costs you the full bar. In theory, if you're in no real danger of taking a big hit and have the full bar, you can spend it on a burst attack/active mitigation/AoE with or without enmity if you so choose. Since activating it would change all the corresponding icons into their counterparts, you'd have to be careful because used at the wrong time means you lose out on Inner Beast when you might need it.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

68 Nihilism (New ability) - Allows the use of one ability corresponding to the opposite of your current stance at double the Beast Gauge cost. Can only be executed while under the effect of Defiance or Deliverance. Switching stances will cancel this effect. Duration: 10s. Cooldown: 60s.

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This is even more useless than Shake it Off. Double gauge cost? Are you serious? Noone would ever use this.

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Originally Posted by SunAurel

As pld main I have to chuckle @ all Warriors that are flaming extensively because their golden class isn't good this patch. This is what pld was during all of HW.

Though i am in favour of SE fixing warrior, it feels good to hear 'WAR sucks switch to pld instead' bc it has always been the other way around

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I think we should be in favor of jobs being balanced rather than having FoTM jobs.

"it has always been the other way around"
You might want to take a look at 2.0 WAR lol. No damage reduction on IB, no damage reduction on Vengeance, healing bonus dependent on wrath stacks, etc.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...0_war/diduw1j/

http://i.imgur.com/W6SejQS.png

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Originally Posted by Falar

I don't know why Warriors are claiming foul the most.....I think Dark Knights got the biggest shaft this expansion.

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I think anyone has the right to complain if their job isn't fun anymore? This reminds me of this picture where you can't complain about anything unless you have it worst.

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Originally Posted by Gravton

Yup, tanking is boring now. At least maxing our damage was a form of personal progress. What do we have to strive for now? Popping a cd when you see a cast bar and moar flash? Woopie. People play to have fun....all the tanks leaving should tell you something. Everquest tanking is no longer fun.

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Yeah, I really miss tanking in TERA. Before maxmizing DPS, you could optimize taking 0 damage by blocking or dodging every hit. Then it became even more challenging with maximizing DPS because the two goals are at ends with each other.