The rationale behind nerfing WHM and SCH?

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

The problem lies with WHM mostly. The fact that all they have is heals means that every healer ever will be "WHM plus more."

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Not really, no. Other MMOs manage to give healers very different playstyles while still accomplishing essentially the same core function.

Cloning the WHM kit and slapping cards on top of that... it's purely lack of any creative thought from the dev team. And even then, they could simply make WHM stronger instead of... as has been mentioning, giving AST stronger heals AND all the utility.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Not really, no. Other MMOs manage to give healers very different playstyles while still accomplishing essentially the same core function.

Cloning the WHM kit and slapping cards on top of that... it's purely lack of any creative thought from the dev team. And even then, they could simply make WHM stronger instead of... as has been mentioning, giving AST stronger heals AND all the utility.

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It doesn't take a genius to realize that if:

1. A job has heals and nothing else
2. All jobs must be able to heal well enough.

That the job that has only heals is going to get left out. A pure healer is just bad design.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

It doesn't take a genius to realize that if:

1. A job has heals and nothing else
2. All jobs must be able to heal well enough.

That the job that has only heals is going to get left out. A pure healer is just bad design.

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To some extent I do agree. Imagine how much more it would have done for balancing if Balance and Chain Strategem were in Cross Role instead of nerfed Divine Seal and the SoS/LA in-between called Lucid Dreaming?

That said, even if SE is pursuing this pure healer vision, there's just no excuse for what they've done.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

That said, even if SE is pursuing this pure healer vision, there's just no excuse for what they've done.

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This is true. Like I said, I don't know what they're doing; I doubt even they know what they're doing. I expect adjustments, because right now, AST has the better heals than the "pure healer." I don't know how they managed to mess up that bad.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

The problem lies with WHM mostly. The fact that all they have is heals means that every healer ever will be "WHM plus more."

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Except the scholar was a totally different class. The white mage's lack of identity besides "heals good" is a problem, but the ast heals almost exactly the same as white mage in their white mage stance, and heals like a white mage with succor and an instant aldo in their scholar stance. There is no way to balance the power of these abilities well. It's not good healer design, and there's no way the ast ever works right until it changes.

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Originally Posted by LunaFaye

Nah they wanted you guys to feel the pain that WHM experienced in 2.x. AS they weren't allowed or taken and it was SCH slot. Then as WHM and AST got still nailed throughout 3.x, SCH's didn't have to worry 'bout a thing. Now with 4.0 it's SCH's turn. At least SCH and WHM can both sit outside on the bench, would suck if we just single out WHM again.

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You're missing part of the point here. I could deal with SCH being the weakest (it probably is atm), because good players can still make a job shine. But losing our core playstyle, identity and basically becoming a copy of the other two healers is extremely lame. Nerfs are fine, and probably needed to some extent, but changing a playstyle to become less engaging is really not. A shame that SE decided to dumb down arguably one of their best designed jobs since 2.x.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

The problem lies with WHM mostly. The fact that all they have is heals means that every healer ever will be "WHM plus more."

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Actually no, the problem is AST who can now do everything the other two healers can do, but better. Their utility should balance weaker shields, heals, and DPS capability. They SHOULD NOT have all this utility, AND stronger shields, AND stronger heals. They are not getting any closer to balance continuing to buff AST, in fact they are drifting further and further away from it. The other thing drifting away is the hope for another healer like Dancer, which so many players want.

I am also with the others that WHM didn't really get nerfed. They lost skills to the role system, but they are still available. Losing stoneskin is worse on paper than actuality, so their one true nerf was losing Divine Seal, which I would have excluded as well if not for the 10% reduction. The lily and confession stack mechanics don't do anything to hurt WHM, so the job plays essentially the same with heavy AoE heals and damage. The problem most have with WHM is that they didn't get anything.