WAR OT enmity monger

As the OP said, they see a storm's eye debuff and no storm's path. I've not used storms path in ages for any hard content as it hasn't been required since we very first started AS12. And doing that+BB spam+triple cleave when berserk is up, I can count on one hand the amount times my MT has lost aggro to me ( Usually if I get reckless after a tank swap before they have a chance to get aggro )

If you are a WAR yourself, you can take advantage of them using Storm's Eye and do 2 Butcher's Block combos instead.
Is a DPS gain for you as Maim actually can last that long.

Also - the OT should optimally be second in hate in case you, the MT, die.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Storms Path is going to be the main means to build up wrath come 4.x, so it may have higher potency, but it doesnt allow more fell cleaves.

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Well that's good to hear. Tbh, I haven't really followed what's going on with war, but it's really looking like pld's patch this go round in the MT department.

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Originally Posted by Areic

As the OP said, they see a storm's eye debuff and no storm's path. I've not used storms path in ages for any hard content as it hasn't been required since we very first started AS12. And doing that+BB spam+triple cleave when berserk is up, I can count on one hand the amount times my MT has lost aggro to me ( Usually if I get reckless after a tank swap before they have a chance to get aggro )

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Because they're sitting in their "tank stance" so of course you're not ripping aggro. Now if you were to go in with a DRK or PLD that actually cared about their DPS and the raid's DPS, you would not be able to BB spam because it is a raid DPS loss. Other tanks sacrifice more potency from using their aggro combo than you sacrifice from not using yours.

Like I said though, this is all moot in a few days and really only applies to 3.x rotations.

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Originally Posted by Areic

As long as you're in tank stance

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That's your answer. If your drk only does 1 power slash out of grit after you pull the boss then you'll rip it sooner or later even with not a single butcher's block, since your dps is naturally higher than the drk (assuming equally skilled and geared). That's where shadewalker comes in, but that still won't let you use butcher's block without forcing them to do another power slash.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

Also - the OT should optimally be second in hate in case you, the MT, die.

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Optimally the MT doesn't die.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

That's your answer. If your drk only does 1 power slash out of grit after you pull the boss then you'll rip it sooner or later even with not a single butcher's block, since your dps is naturally higher than the drk (assuming equally skilled and geared). That's where shadewalker comes in, but that still won't let you use butcher's block without forcing them to do another power slash.

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OP never said the warriors were in tank stance, and most I run into don't try to be unless it's some stupid 24 man where the other tanks have to have a big E-peen about having aggro. Generally OT should be #2 on the aggro list, and as of 3.0 patches warriors do far more DPS than the other two. For AS9 which was an easier fight and even with me on bombs I could pull upward of 2k DPS, just a few hundred below our lowest DPS. So generally the MT will sacrifice some time in tank stance to hold aggro, and still do just fine. On that same fight our paladin pulled 1.5-1.6k DPs

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Originally Posted by Areic

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Posts like this almost make me wanna go tell all the emo doomsaying WARs complaining about their "nerfs" that they bloody deserve it, and kick 'em while they're down. 2 years of this entitled way of thinking has been a plague on the meta.

WAR should not be #2 in aggro unless there are tank swaps happening.

WAR is also not "far" ahead of either tank. If slashing is up WAR does like 2% more DPS than DRK, and ~5% more than PLD. Your PLD could have been doing 18K if you were not forcing him to turtle up in ShO, and you would have lost like, 10DPS.

I'm sorry but if you are going to tout your personal DPS numbers like this people are going to point out how you are mathematically incorrect for doing so, and were gimping your raid's global DPS because you consider yourself so "far ahead" of your co-tanks.

What's all this talk about the OT needing to be 2nd on the aggro list? Isn't that what provoke's for?

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

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The hell are you talking about? I've always just done as my raid asked, I never even knew optimal HW rotation until my MT started talking to me and we worked it out together. The safest DPS to emnity gain without overtaking the MT for us has been an alternate Storm's eye into BB combo and back and forth. There's no "hurting" global raid DPS, the only one in our raid that has ever been effected in the slightest is our MT, and for a large chunk of savage fight durations he has to stay in shield oath or grit anyway, especially AS12.

Even in fights tank stance isn't required much like AS10 and we both only pop into it for the tank swaps, warrior numbers for that fight were at 1.8k typically on a relaxed night while PLD numbers were at around 1.5-1.6k. And doing this type of rotation has always been safe, always accepted by the raid. It just sounds to me like people are either A: Getting half retarded warriors who only BB in tank stance while being the OT for god knows what reason but I've never seen it, or B: Just can't hold aggro or accept they might need to be in tank stance a tiny bit longer. Stance dancing is also a thing, I've risked losing aggro while MT'ing before and will quickly switch back for 1-2 BB combos then back to deliverance