A Big Problem with the New Summoner.

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Originally Posted by Psycofang

Your single target went upwards, you get a 3 damage boost abilities, DR for the raid, 3 extra GCDs thanks to tri being reset for agressive play and Shadow flare being instant cast.

You also get 2 enkindles per bahamut which are 685 potency each, painflare isnt nerfed etc

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No Our Single target actually took a massive hit too.

Ruin 3 used to be 200 potency... its now 150.... so we're basically nerfed until we get Ruin 4... and even then there's only a CHANCE it will proc...

So our avg damage between the two is likely still only going be around 180 with procs.

Tri-Disaster IS nerfed...

We can no longer stack 3 DoTs... we only stack two... so instead of 110 potency... (At similar level) its only 70 potency now... (used to be Bio, Bio 2, Miasma... now Bio becomes Bio2.. .so no more stack)

So our Single Target damage took a second hit there too...

Shadowflare was ALREADY... used with Quickcast... so it already was used that way. Making it insta cast is in essence No change... however we COULD cast it without it, and maintain it indefinitely in an extended fight... we no longer can... BECAUSE its an OGCD, and now 60 second recast...

So no... we lost a crapton of Single Target as well.

We lost BOTH AoE... AND Single target... hence... our mega nerf.

EDIT: And for the record... Contagion... used to be the equivalent of a 550 potency AoE... so its questionable that what replaced it made up for any DPS hit at all.

Our DoTs will total 80 potency per tick, not 70 (Bio 3 and Miasma 3 are both 40 potency per tick). Still a 30 potency loss per tick and comes out to be about 600 potency per minute. Shadowflare is pretty minor in the grand scheme of things, at least as far as single target DPS goes. It's a more sizeable AoE nerf. Contagion on the whole is better with the way we are built in Stormblood. Extending 30s DoTs to 45 seconds is effectively worthless as you will still have to hardcast them to refresh once per minute anyways. It also benefits the raid, so it will help your PLD, healers, and other casters if for some reason you have others in your group. Ruin 3 got nerfed which sucks, but Ruin 1 and Ruin 2 being 100 potency is a bit of a balancing factor. Ruination (from Tri-Disaster) will help us deal with the lost damage to a degree, and Bahamut should be worth something around 2000-2500 player potency per use if used properly.

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Originally Posted by Semmi

Our DoTs will total 80 potency per tick, not 70 (Bio 3 and Miasma 3 are both 40 potency per tick). Still a 30 potency loss per tick and comes out to be about 600 potency per minute. Shadowflare is pretty minor in the grand scheme of things, at least as far as single target DPS goes. It's a more sizeable AoE nerf. Contagionon the whole is better with the way we are built in Stormblood. Extending 30s DoTs to 45 seconds is effectively worthless as you will still have to hardcast them to refresh once per minute anyways. It also benefits the raid, so it will help your PLD, healers, and other casters if for some reason you have others in your group. Ruin 3 got nerfed which sucks, but Ruin 1 and Ruin 2 being 100 potency is a bit of a balancing factor. Ruination (from Tri-Disaster) will help us deal with the lost damage to a degree, and Bahamut should be worth something around 2000-2500 player potency per use if used properly.

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No... I' m comparing it to current damage levels... not what we get later... because comparing Bio3 and Miasma2..... to our Current Bio2 and Miasma and saying one is better is complete apples to oranges, and pointless.

But comparing a Nerfed Tri-Disaster (Aka minus one stack) to the current Non Nerfed version (without minus stack) at the same level is a very valid comparison. ie... using Bio 1, Bio2, Miasma (110 potency) vs the Tri-Disaster with only Bio 2 and Miasma (70 potency) to demonstrate the huge DPS loss it is... is a valid comparison.

And yes... not being able to maintain Shadowflare IS a major DPS hit. Combined with the Ruin 3 Nerf and Ruin 4 being what if I remember right only a 15% chance to proc... no way in hell will you make up the DPS loss...

Raid damage is where we're really going to suffer...

It would not surprise me at this point to see SMN the lowest on the totem pole at this point and not competitive at all. The numbers don't stack up.

And its not going to make everyone else in the raid any better... they'll just be pulling the extra weight WE used to carry ourselves but no longer can.

EDIT: Ruin 4 proc would have to be at least 80% before we're even going to get back up to the 200 potency Ruin 3 pre-nerf.... but but but... we get to look so KEWL with that Bahamut pet.... don't we?

My basic idea from the opener would be like this. I think it is not worth keep that 15 second dw stance in the opener because then your festers get delayed, your next dw stance get delayed and your bahamut get delayed. Other words whole summoner kit get delayed if you delay your aetherflows. Opener buffs usually take around 15 seconds so you could get as much burst as possible.
http://i.imgur.com/FHXZnGd.jpg

Bottom line here... they don't just need to make minor "adjustments"... to the SMN to get it back on track...

They'll need to remove about 80% of the nerfs... then at least it won't end up broken.

was watching Larryzaur's SMN video and he uses bane on a set of training dummies all three were takeing similar damage on dot ticks ganted there were three dummies but if a 20% loss of potency on second target. Tooltip could be wrong on Bane at least I hope it is.

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Originally Posted by vikteren

was watching Larryzaur's SMN video and he uses bane on a set of training dummies all three were takeing similar damage on dot ticks ganted there were three dummies but if a 20% loss of potency on second target. Tooltip could be wrong on Bane at least I hope it is.

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Don't think Larry was at the Media Tour....

I feel like SE wanted to shift SMN's damage frm our old skills towards the Bahamut summon.
However, my only concern is that it heavily relies on our Aetherflow, which we only get 3 stacks of every minute.

If Bahamut is really supposed to be where the majority of our damage comes from id like to be able to summon it more often.
Reducing the CD of Aetherflow to 45 or maybe even 30 seconds would make it feel more part of our core rotation and would probably nullify a lot of the other nerfs we got.

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Originally Posted by IchiExorz

I feel like SE wanted to shift SMN's damage frm our old skills towards the Bahamut summon.
However, my only concern is that it heavily relies on our Aetherflow, which we only get 3 stacks of every minute.

If Bahamut is really supposed to be where the majority of our damage comes from id like to be able to summon it more often.
Reducing the CD of Aetherflow to 45 or maybe even 30 seconds would make it feel more part of our core rotation and would probably nullify a lot of the other nerfs we got.

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Honestly that right there would go a long ways to aleviating the problem.

If Aetherflow were not limited to once per minute... then yeah the Bahamut changes could overcome the massive over nerfs.

Still that would only solve the problems at level 70... not the other problems this causes all the way up the levels from Arcanist to SMN... let alone the hit the SCH took too.

The only other thing I was thinking that MIGHT just stop the giant, crap sandwich.... we're about to eat.

is..if the calculations underneath everything have changed.... they did say they were redoing the way stats work...

So there is a possibility that what was 200 potency before, would actually be 300 potency in damage under the new system due to the way stats now work... so the old 3.0 method of damage calculation would no longer hold true... and 200 potency in one would be completely different than 200 potency in the other.

Thats the only thing that could save us if these things remain unchanged.

But otherwise... yeah this is going to be a problem.

EDIT: And I seriously doubt they adjusted the stats that much to compensate for reduced potencies.