Forbidden Materia, meant for the hardcore or just the lucky?

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

I guess I just still don't see the logic. Each attempt is independent from the last whether it was two minutes or two weeks ago. Doing them sooner will, of course, likely result in achieving the desired result sooner. But, that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't matter if you do 1500 of them. It could happen on the first one or the 1501st. It doesn't change the fact that how many are attempted I'd irrelevant.

It's like Valkurm Emporer in XI. Some people got drops back to back. Others went 200+ kills empty handed, but a random number generator like that doesn't account for successive attempts.

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Fair enough, I completely understand where you're coming from. It basically just comes down to how you look at it. It really doesn't matter how I try to explain it, it won't change your opinion on the matter. But, that's not to say that you're right and I'm wrong, or vice-versa. When dealing with multiple RNGs like this, it's all relative and views vary from person to person.

I would prefer a slight chance to get extra sockets on gear when obtaining it or crafting it than the current system. It could have the same ridiculous low probablility. I would just add a materia combining feature for the gambling aspect of materia. Could get rid of all the not worth selling mind materia and such.

I guess on some planets winning a slot machine or the lottery could be considered hardcore.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

I guess on some planets winning a slot machine or the lottery could be considered hardcore.

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kill an NM 20 times and not get the piece of gear it drops, and watch your mate do the same one once and the the drop first time, would you say he/she is more hardcore than you or luckier, luck is a major part of any game which randomly does anything

It's meant for the filthy rich that don't mind blowing 100mil on one piece of gear.

It's meant for those with nothing better to do ^^ Like those with all 50s.

Anyway, I don't think it's meant to be used on high tier materias, more like give low tier materias some use.

A 2-T4-materia equip will be equivalent to a 4,5-T2-materia equip, give or take, and easier to make.

By the way, your 3rd materia chance will lie between ~15% to 25.5%, depending on the actual Grade used.

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Originally Posted by Victor

It's meant for the filthy rich that don't mind blowing 100mil on one piece of gear.

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Right, and I don't think anyone would disagree with this statement. This is very similar to the process of creating relic weapons in XI, at least with the approach I'm taking.

However, spending 5 months to complete a relic in XI meant you had a weapon that would last you years. In XIV, spending the same amount of time for a mid-level 5-materia piece of gear only yields a finished item that will be made obsolete within a few patches.

And just like relics in XI, the gil isn't the issue. It's the supply of materia (currency) and incredibly low success rates (which I guess would be fine if there was a constant supply of materia) that slows the process down. By the time you're done with an item, it's already obsolete, making the whole process seem pointless.

Seeing how the materia system is still in Beta phase, it's open to many adjustments in the near future. I'm just trying to make suggestions to balance the risk vs reward for items like these. Because right now, items like these can easily cost 100m to make, but even in today's economy, they would be extremely difficult to resell for that price, let alone for profit. As time passes they'll be worth less and less.

All I'm asking is to speed up the process to a reasonable level, or, make the time investment absolutely worth it. That could be done in many ways. Increasing the amount of materia available for purchase, decreasing the amount of attempts needed by adjusting success rates, or even giving bonuses on gear with 4-5 melds on it to make it worth the large time investment involved.

Whatever it is, I don't care, but 5 months (on average) for an M5 piece of gear that can be rivaled by an M3 piece of gear in a few months time, possibly before the M5 is even complete, does not seem worth it. And this will always be the case.

Honestly I think this whole materia thing is really awfully implemented. I get that they're meant to be for "hardcore players", but imho in order to be considered a "hardcore content" it should involve some kind of skill, right now it's just too random.

For instance, the reward from an extremely hard dungeon, with hard bosses and low drop rate is random, but still it's the fact that it takes effort to complete it multiple times that makes it hardcore. It doesn't take any effort to meld materias.

I might be wrong, but to me it seems like the system is built just to be gil consuming untill the game is done, so that at the release we won't have the awful economy we had before it was implemented.
It needs much more depth in order to be considered a "content".

I agree with all the things the OP suggested and I would add that it would be nice if the percentage could be controllable in some ways, like an affinity system where different types of materia of the same tier have different percentage to success, or different percentage for different gears, or even a minigame involving some skills from the crafter when melding.

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Originally Posted by jones6

I would prefer a slight chance to get extra sockets on gear when obtaining it or crafting it than the current system. It could have the same ridiculous low probablility. I would just add a materia combining feature for the gambling aspect of materia. Could get rid of all the not worth selling mind materia and such.

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Right, they could do a thing like this: Raid/dungeon drop.

-Normal mode= 1 socket
- Hard mode = same item with 2 socket

crafted gears:

-NQ = 1 socket
-HQ = 2 socket

so this will give more sense to hq too...

Hi Meowy,

In answer to your OP, I'd say it's a time sink, for those that are bored, rich enough, or just gamblers.

I would personally prefer a Long Term, Time Sink Goal that rewards player effort, where everything you do is a positive increment towards that goal:

* Like Final Fantasy XI's Relic Weapons.

At least for Relic Weapons (early days), every time you went into Dynamis, you were making positive progress towards the goal of completing your Relic Weapon (by earning more Special Currency). You were putting in the effort and your work was being rewarded. It didn't have a chance to "blow up" (lose all your progress) only to start over again.

With the Multiple Melding Materia System here, it's far more based on Luck. It's the Player standing around and pulling a "slot machine" or "rolling the dice." You attempt a Multiple Meld, roll the dice, and see if it exploded or passed. Repeat.

I'd love to see Yoshida-san and team allow *some* way to integrate Player Effort and Skill towards Multiple Materia Melding. As I posted before, here's an example:

* Complete a series of engaging, challenging Quests ending with a challenging Boss Fight that allows you to gain a Blessing from one of the Twelve, which can either grant you a Materia Slot or at least gives you a Bonus to Succeed in Melding.

Because at least in this case, the Player is rewarded for making a real effort and utilizing their skill towards this Materia Melding, instead of just rolling the dice in town (or paying someone to try and roll the dice for you).

And most importantly, as you say, Yoshida-san and company are not on a good precedent right now: Our previous "top end" equipment seems to be getting invalidated with every patch so far.

To be fair they were revamping recipes (huge change) and revamping the Job System (which influences weapons / armor), so I'm holding out hope that this is just an aberration and that we *will* get a stable set of Equipment to work towards that lasts more than just ~2 - 3 months. :(

We'll see where this goes in the coming few patches (e.g., if Moogle Weapon drops or Garuda Weapon drops, or new Recipes in 1.20 or 1.21 just invalidate the best gear we had for 1.19 well...).