Raid Finder and a General Problem I Needed to Get Off my Chest

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

Echo and gear makes them alot easier in the same way as unsync makes the lvl 50 content easier. The difference is huge. Even just with more gear.

They nerfed it because some classes were mandatory to handle mechanics. They nerfed it that it can be doable with partys that are missing classes completely.

Lets take a look:

Silence is not mandatory anylonger to beat them.

One jail was for caster classes only. Another one for physical classes only. Now every kind of class can do both DD jails.

All these nerfs are just to handle the matching of the duty finder.

The nerfs some patches later in A8S were to make it more accessible for groups without Scholar.

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Just to confirm, we all know what echo is, it just has nothing to do with what I requested which is the reason why I said it didn't matter. They could add reverse echo and I'd still say put it in the Duty Finder so players can try it out easier.

As for the other stuff, your telling me that SE made all these new savage mode content as well as Ex Primals without sporadic player compositions in mind? Sounds like an issue in itself actually. Basically its like, "play our way or your f***ed until we say otherwise (patch)" Thnx for that bit of info, though related completely, adding a more lax matching for the newer content wouldn't harm anything. If players want to complete a duty, you have 2 liable options. Raid Finder's completion choice and PF.

Player compositions have always been somewhat of a side issue. Players plan around it and or wing it. Once again, its good for getting a good test of content before using a partyfinder, and with multiple tries it could offer some good practice.

What KarstenS is saying is you are making a connection where there isn't one.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

You know why extreme primals are easily done in Duty Finder? Because they're open to everyone.

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You can't really say that for all primals though because there are three that aren't there. They're in RF for a reason. The connection you are trying to make is that things like Bismarck EX (tuned to i160~180), and Ravana EX (tuned to i170~190) are just as easy as Nidhogg EX (tuned to i220~i240) and Sophia EX (tuned to i240~i250) with any party composition and setup (by composition I mean amount of people with/without fight EXP) . While yes, you can potentially beat Bismarck and Ravana, you can't just take the same party and expect to beat it in Sophia EX.

The RF is there for the reasons stated on it: to separate practice from farming (2 options, duty complete + completion and duty incomplete + practice), or kill (duty incomplete + completion). The duty complete + practice combo is stupid and useless because if you've killed the content, why are you going in to practice? I personally can't make sense of it. But the RF is there to separate the 3 categories: farm party, kill party, progression party (practicing any phase of the fight). The idea is to assist groups regardless of party setup.

On the other hand, duty finder is there to commit to doing a duty regardless of what status your personal progression is at, and the reason for that is because it isn't regarded as difficult or 'current' content.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

The duty complete + practice combo is stupid and useless because if you've killed the content, why are you going in to practice? I personally can't make sense of it. .

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If people were more honest this setting would get used a lot more I think. clearing it once doesn't mean you've mastered it yet.

this is why most farm parties fall apart because people clear it once or twice and think they've got it on "farm" despite being carried.. or maybe you're switched jobs or something. cleared it as a tank but practicing as a healer....

Raid Finder is pretty good... for the one-latest primal.

All others should be kicked out into regular DF.
There's no reason why Sephirot and Nidhogg are still in Raid Finder. And, if anyone hasn't completed these fights yet, it's almost impossible to use Raid Finder while locked under the "Incomplete" status. So they're pretty much stuck with PF only. If you're on a smaller server, you might not be able to find peeps...

Also, for those who have completed, they should be allowed to "also include" incompletes if they want... just to make their q's shorter if they'd like.

Such is my judgment!

In my opinion only the current Ex Primal and Savage should be in Raid Finder with the older ones being in DF to help queues. I had to use party finder to get past Nidhogg because I only got 3 pops in RF after hours of waiting in queue over 2 weeks.

These topics tend to get low support though. It seems like a lot of people only use use it for current content anyways:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...vs-duty-finder
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-ex-back-to-DF

Raid Finder works well if you choose to run under duty completed. There's usually enough folks farming - even for older content - in order to find a group. It's the progression bits that are a lot more iffy... Splitting the pool of members the way it does makes an already difficult queue nigh-impossible.

That said, I know from personal experience how frustrating it can be to have the first part of the fight down pat, and eager to practice later phases, only to be constantly queued up with a fresh newbie who has to learn the first phase. The odds of actually getting any later-phase practice done are slim.

The pool of players doing later phases at any given time is simply too small. I don't think that it's a problem that can be solved with any kind of tool. At least Raid Finder as it stands DOES provide one purpose, in that it saves late-progression players the frustration of getting saddled with yet another newbie. Too bad it does so by preventing the late-progression player from getting any kind practice at all...

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

You know why extreme primals are easily done in Duty Finder?

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.... what

/10char

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Originally Posted by ErryK

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Actually I worded that wrong. "Extreme Primals are easily ran in Duty Finder", but I'd be lying if I said players didn't complete an ex primal using Duty Finder.

Another thing people are confusing this topic with me calling the mode useless. I said it was unneeded, not meaning it isn't helpful. We can still have raid practice options and farming in raid finder, just asking for another option for general running of the content that's not splitting up queues.

Let's be honest once the cross server PF is up it will replace how harder EX primals are ran the reason why it's dead in RF and was dead in DF as well is your almost always dealing with multiple new players who don't know the fight and even if you make progress your going to have to rinse and repeat this progress because time runs out.

I cleared Thordan a couple times in DF but that was because most of the party was premades never cleared with 8 random people.

It's splitting it up to put like-minded individuals into the same instance. If one wants to practice without exp, then they queue up for that. If one wants to practice with exp, they put in for that, etc.

It's like saying "We should have separates queues for cheques and cash." then saying "Wait, why not make one queue which allows people to use both?" which means longer queues as well as longer processing times as it is one person dealing with many, instead of 2 people dealing with many. Two heads are better than one, two queues are better than one.