Wanting an explanation for said op of scholar cause I'm not seeing it in my experienc

Dungeons don't matter. Scholar is "OP" because it is required in all serious 8 man raid groups. That's the short of it.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Dungeons don't matter. Scholar is "OP" because it is required in all serious 8 man raid groups. That's the short of it.

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but how do dungeons not matter when more of the player base do dungeons compared to the small percentage that raid?

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

but how do dungeons not matter when more of the player base do dungeons compared to the small percentage that raid?

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Because dungeons are easy, and don't require people to play theirs jobs at the fullest capability, while savage raiding does.

He's saying any combination of healer/tank/DPS can handle dungeons (they aren't "serious"). But raiding (which is "serious") requires a SCH. When discussing class balance, it's mainly only relevant in the current raiding scene, is the usual feeling there. Non-raid content, people tend to be less worried about class balance provided a class isn't so weak it literally can't finish a dungeon. Class balance is all about how a class works at a given tier of skill. At tiers where the overall skill is low, it's hard to judge balance based on the class itself because player skill variance dominates class (im)balance. At higher tiers of play, class (im)balance will begin to dominate as all players at a given skill tier will tend to "play correctly". Perfect class balance is never really achieved, and generally isn't worth striving for as the easiest way to get that is total homogenization.But for most games that care at all about class balance, "good enough" balance is eventually achieved.

All of this is from experiences in many games over more decades than I like to admit to, in FFXIV I am still firmly in the "scrub league". ;)

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

but how do dungeons not matter when more of the player base do dungeons compared to the small percentage that raid?

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As undemocratic as it sounds, because raiders break the game while non-raiders hug the tracks SE lays out for them. Also, never base opinions on duty finder. SCH in DF also have a running history of full afk thinking the fairy can handle everything for them. I spammed a11 yesterday, and out of several scholars, only one dps'd and healed, the rest afk'd

WAR and SCH are considered op because they're strong in their roles while still bringing good dps. Meanwhile, the "specialist" classes are decent in their roles and lololol at dps

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

but how do dungeons not matter when more of the player base do dungeons compared to the small percentage that raid?

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Because raiders push phases and adapt to DPSing while doing mechanics at the same time, non raiders will do the bare minimum and overheal while doing 0 DPS as a healer.

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Originally Posted by Awful

Because raiders push phases and adapt to DPSing while doing mechanics at the same time, non raiders will do the bare minimum and overheal while doing 0 DPS as a healer.

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Ive ran into far few healers that dont heal while their are some I havent seen a ton, and u just called prob like 75 percent of the game bare minimum players and Id just have to disagree with that, Ive done a bit of raiding myself not alexander yet but plan to , but that will be my thing tho Im not gona base how a job plays from raiding and ignore that its 90 percent more content in the game , the game could survive without raiders the game wouldn't survive if everyone else left. So it would make no sense to base things on that by itself, because everyone has levels and while others say dungeons are easy I see someone die in them every time I log in ha

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Ive ran into far few healers that dont heal while their are some I havent seen a ton, and u just called prob like 75 percent of the game bare minimum players and Id just have to disagree with that, Ive done a bit of raiding myself not alexander yet but plan to , but that will be my thing tho Im not gona base how a job plays from raiding and ignore that its 90 percent more content in the game , the game could survive without raiders the game wouldn't survive if everyone else left. So it would make no sense to base things on that by itself, because everyone has levels and while others say dungeons are easy I see someone die in them every time I log in ha

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You're missing the point. In this case, let's assume there's two groups of players; Hardcore raiders and players who stick to normal raiding/dungeons.

In the hardcore raiders group, the percentage that tries to get the most out of their job is really high, because performing at close to 100% is required to clear savage content.
In the normal raid/dungeon players group, the percentage of those type of players is generally lower, because it isn't necessary to play at close to 100% to clear normal raids/dungeons.

Not even sure why you're pulling the "game could survive without raiders" card, since it has nothing to do with the topic.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

You're missing the point. In this case, let's assume there's two groups of playerts; Hardcore raiders and players who stick to normal raiding/dungeons.

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Because seems they are mostly the ones claiming everything is easy , someone above said that dungeons dont matter but yet its the most used contnet in the game and i just find it odd to ignore the rest of the game , and the fact that everyone says they are easy but its a thread on here about duty finder instances about all the things that have happened in dungeons. My point was that i keep seeing threads pop up about how whm is the weakest healer and in my exp scholar has been the weakest Ive gone into any dungeons with, are primals. Because a skilled player can make any job be good so why base a job performance off of them they are skilled they are suppose to be good if ur doing savage ur suppose to be good. So yes scholars that do the highest teir of content in the game , but people that are just playing the game for fun, scholar is one of the harder classes to get a hang on so I couldn't say its op because ur average player doesn't no how to maximize the job. And your average players are the ones who mostly represent the game.

The reasons people say Scholar's are "OP"
-Lustrate can be used far more frequently then Tetragrammaton and Essential Dignity.
-Imdomitability is stronger then WHM's Assize (in terms of healing) and can be used way more frequently. AST doesn't even have a oGCD to compare to it.
-If having Imdomitability wasn't enough, Emergency Tactics helps with their lack of a vanilla-burst AoE heal.
-Fairies are semi-permanent Regens that are cost free and completely separate from the user's cast times and global cooldowns. Even better, you have Rouse to boost them and make them immune to status effects.
-Eos has Fey Illuminate, which boosts the cure magic potency of everyone with in distance, and a built in AoE HoT, Whispering Dawn.
-Selene has a group Cleanse, Fey Caress, and an AoE attack speed buff, Fey Wind. While AST's Arrow + Spread is stronger, it's also RNG-based.
-They have far better MP management then WHM's do, with Aetherflow, Energy Drain, and having way more oGCD heals.
-WHM's can do more damage but are held back by their MP management. SCH's DoT's help them continuously do damage though out a fight far more comfortably, for a longer period of time. Their main three DoTs can also be spread without using MP.
-Noct!AST's vanilla-shields may be stronger but SCH can spread their stronger shield (Adloquium) with Deployment Tactics, along with Eye for an Eye.