Friendly Sad Advice needed-The Sunken Temple of Qarn

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Originally Posted by Khubla_Kha

Get provoke, now. ...

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You're wrong. If you need provoke to hold trash packs, THAT'S awful tanking. The first thing a tank needs to learn is how to use his AOE generators properly. Provoke is essentiell at certain points, but if you say it is from the beginning, you don't know how to tank. Losing aggro in a dungeon is always an issue of not being able to use your skillset the right way or being undergeared and the usage of provoke is the proof of that. You could place the Ninja bunyn on your head in that situations. Escpecially if the tank is new in let's say Braxflox. Don't tell him to get Provoke because you are angry of his tanking skills. In a dungeon this is not the issue at all. You can blame tanks in Alexander normal for it, content where Provoke is not that optional anymore.

I don't say Provoke isn't a great and helpful skill. But if you need to rely on it in dungeons, you are just bad.

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Originally Posted by TaurusGilgamesh

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So you've never had a dps go ham on an off target? Perhaps before you've had a chance to run through your high enmity abilities on everything? You've never had something spawn and aggro a healer?

You're either lying or not thinking about this clearly in a vain attempt to be right.

Do you need it for every pull? No. Is it an essential tool you shouldn't be waiting until level 60 to obtain? Absolutely. And the sooner the better.

Exactly, I fully agree with you Callinon, Provoke's importance for tanking cannot be underestimated. It is your 'panic button' in case you suddenly lose hate to help you get it back on you quick fast before your healer goes down or someone else who is a glass cannon that has pulled the hate off you from ending up a monster's tasty snack and promptly taking a dirt nap.

Of course you need to use a enmity generating ability immediately after like Flash to hold the hate on you, but it is still a very important skill to have as part of your tanking kit.

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Originally Posted by TaurusGilgamesh

Like others said: Become a Warrior. It will grants you Defiance which can only be used as Warrior. It will lowers your output damage but will increase your enmity generation. Basically, you'll need it for the rest of your journey. Your Pulgurist is high enough so you should just go unlock it. I think that's the main issue here and should do the trick.

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But isn't warrior unlocked with a lv 30 marauder and a lv15 gladiator?

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Originally Posted by Callinon

So you've never had [...]

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To be honest, I rarely run into situations where Provoke would be more essential than Arm of the Destroyer is for Monk. As Tank, I can deal around 600 damage potency worth of threat every GCD in an AoE. That's a tall order to beat as DPS and not possible in AoE - Even Fire IV only does 551,25 potency per GCD. You have to go out of your way to set up a burst rotation on a single target in a mob group (For ninja, you'd draw aggro shortly after Trick Attack into Duality Aeolian Edge for 2 GCDs).

The main issue is that provoke doesn't do much on its own. It puts you at the top of the aggro table, but if you don't or can't follow up on that with sufficient aggro, you're just going to lose it again. Instead of provoking something of a healer, you need to Tomahawk/Unmend/Shield Lob ASAP, because the next heal, even if it's just a HoT tick, will pull the mob right back to the healer and you'll have to do it anyway.
It's essential if you died or there's a tank swap mechanic. It's useful if you want to pull something that's out of range of your regular abilities or as a quick fix to being brainAFK and letting a mob run wild for so long that Unmend/Toma/Lob doesn't suffice anymore.

I'd advise getting it solely because new tanks can use every training wheel they can get. But I personally only ever use it for pulling outside of raids and even that only so it doesn't feel quite as lonely and abandoned.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

1000 character limit

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The OP said he was in Qarn. So he's not in a position to put out 600 potency on anything. That's the context of the discussion, whether or not Provoke was a tool that should be obtained while leveling up. I contend that it is, not because it's a training wheel, but because it's an essential tool for a tank to have.

Yes, proper use of provoke requires that it be immediately followed up with a high threat ability (I usually shield lob, tomahawk, or unmend as they have similar ranges).

Please remember here that not all content is max level content, and not all players are doing max level content when they're having problems.

I use provoke all the time to pull the next set of adds in lower dungeons. There's plenty of uses for it. Whether or not it's required isn't a debate. You can heal a dungeon just fine without swiftcast but there's plenty of uses for it beyond the occasional quick battle rez

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Originally Posted by Callinon

true comment

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but we are talking about Qarn. and I never said I kept the aggro in all times. but in fact, if you have trouble holding aggro all the time ecspecially if you tank a big pull, you need to think about how you generate aggro and not being concerned about having no provoke. Of course it helps and the sonner you get it the better. but its stupid to tell a new player who is a marauder at lv 30 he sucks cause he dont have provoke. provoke isnt the priority in that case.

and its my personal experience with tanks losing aggro to me: they shield lob. flash and start their single target rotation. and if you handle pulls like that its no wonder losing aggro to someone.

Regarding add spawns: If a add spawns and aggros the healer, the enmity of the healer is low. Easy to handle by a single shield lob. Provoke is a waste there.

Other situations:
- Healer gets aggro cause of regen, flash or lob it. easy. no provoke needed.
- Melee steals aggro: swap target, enmity combo. easy. provoke recommend, but not needed
- Range steals aggro. Shield lob works in most situations, with upcoming enmity combo. But in that case, yes provoke is highly recommend, unless the range is nearby.

We are talking about Casual Dungeons. Instances where things are easy, where mobs does not one-shot you. And having provoke doesn't fix the lack of knowing your skills. In my runs, I rarely have to rely on it.
And to be honest, if you lose aggro the last hit of your melee is wasted even with provoke.

But this does not mean provoke is garbage. That's not what I'm saying. It can be useful in many different ways, like range pulling. But normally, a tank is aware of the situation and knows how enmity will be generated. If you have just lost aggro, you can get it back without provoke easily, if you notice the situation pretty late, provoke is the only solution for it, to grap aggro back quick.

I just wanna say: I don't need provoke very often and not having it would make me a bad tank from the start, cause I can grap aggro back quick without it.
The first instance I can imagine where it is essentially is Thornmarch (Hard), unless tanks are talking with each other (most of the time, not the case)

I totally understand your opinion about provoke, but that does not change the fact, that I can handle most dungeon runs without it.

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Originally Posted by Powe

But isn't warrior unlocked with a lv 30 marauder and a lv15 gladiator?

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You're right. Mistake on my behalf.

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Originally Posted by RockyRage

First post bear with me..

I've tanked for awhile now and haven't had any issues but when it comes to The Sunken Temple of Qarn I am clearly sucking.. are there any specific training or something I've missed to help prepare for this? I've gotten yelled at for lack of buff and that I need a specific training before I try and tank this. I've look elsewhere for an answer and haven't actually found any instruction.

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The important things to know about Qarn:

- Like others said, if you're using Marauder instead of Warrior, you'll be missing some key skills that will make your life as a tank easier.
- Always make sure that the bees are killed first. They can one shot you.
-When you get doomed in the first fight, you have to step on the pad to un-doom yourself. Also, the bees during the fight have to die fast. The DPS normally switch to them to deal with it. If they don't you can let them know about it.
- The statues need to die on the plates to open the passage way. There's also treasure hidden in rooms on the sides of the dungeon.
- As for buffs, try to use defensive buffs at the beginning of the pull. Alternate between your defensive abilities and there should always be one up or close to up on your timers.
- When pulling, try to always have them facing away from the rest of the party. You can do this by running through the mobs when you pull/aggro them so they turn around and follow you.
- The big rock boss can reset hate so refresh your hate combo when you see him going for someone else.
- Provoke + pull ability is great for getting mobs to turn back around (that were headed for someone else)