So are we *ever* getting the planned list of Class/Ability changes?

There's two things that we can provide feedback on.

One is design changes that don't require fine grained details; like "actions can no longer be queued" or some other major change that visibly and greatly affects the dynamic of a class.

The other is balance changes that do require numbers and greater detail. This is something that we COULD damn well provide feedback on, if the devs started including that detail both in-game (how damage is calculated) and out side of the game in planned changes to damage/healing/whatever (i.e. 'CON spells cost 10% less mana' versus 'CON spells MP cost has been reduced').

Not only that, but having your players test a patch after it has gone live is the absolute worst way to develop any MMO and it's a precedent that died back in 2004 when WOW came out. This is why PTR's have been created and why patch notes for any serious MMO are constantly discussed and revealed as early as possible.

@Jennestia

So your argument is that the devs have no obligation to maintain their promises on timely delivery of information to the customers who will be supporting this game with actual cash for the next year? You're somehow AGAINST them releasing the patch notes they already told us they would give us two weeks ago, and you're AGAINST player feedback for major, sweeping changes to existing classes and abilities?

I'm not really following you here.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Not only that, but having your players test a patch after it has gone live is the absolute worst way to develop any MMO and it's a precedent that died back in 2004 when WOW came out.

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Sarcasm? Because every MMO incorporates hotfixes after major patches goes live, which in essence, means everyone play tested them and still found bugs and glitches, therefore the need for hotfixes, which Blizzard does as well.

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Originally Posted by Ronik

@Jennestia

So your argument is that the devs have no obligation to maintain their promises on timely delivery of information to the customers who will be supporting this game with actual cash for the next year?

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What is "timely"? This is subjective from person to person, therefore it's a bit hard to say when they're "slacking", especially when you take into consideration the amount of work that's being done with this game.

Be lucky they're even going to share it with us? If they wanted they could wait till the day of patch but they've already said it would be out before then. Unless it's literally killing you, then waiting longer isn't going to cause any harm.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Sarcasm? Because every MMO incorporates hotfixes after major patches goes live, which in essence, means everyone play tested them and still found bugs and glitches, therefore the need for hotfixes, which Blizzard does as well.

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Nice try, but hotfixes are never balance changes or broad design changes. They are small fixes for critical bugs that escaped through the testing phase.

Wish they wouldn't have broken the announcement up into two parts. The speculation is driving me insane.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Sarcasm? Because every MMO incorporates hotfixes after major patches goes live, which in essence, means everyone play tested them and still found bugs and glitches, therefore the need for hotfixes, which Blizzard does as well.

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So you're honestly saying that PTR's are useless because there are still bugs to be found after the official patch releases? You're really making absolutely no sense here. I don't think you understand exactly how much crap is found in PTRs and fixed before live releases. I'm not saying FFXIV should have PTR servers for patches (not yet, anyway - maybe down the line with 2.0), but to argue that PTR's are useless is flat-out ignorance.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Nice try, but hotfixes are never balance changes or broad design changes. They are small fixes for critical bugs that escaped through the testing phase.

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Based on what you said, you essentially stated WoW releases perfect patches which means there's no need for hotfixes, which means WoW should be free of hotfixes, as well as any MMORPG that was released after 2004, yet I'm pretty sure every MMO I've played since 2004 (WoW included) utilizes hotfix patching. Otherwise, it's not something that died out in 2004, players of any MMO are still the biggest "testers" when it comes to patches because players almost always find bugs and glitches that QA can miss.

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

Be lucky they're even going to share it with us? If they wanted they could wait till the day of patch but they've already said it would be out before then. Unless it's literally killing you, then waiting longer isn't going to cause any harm.

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If they expect us to pay for a game which is still largely broken and sparse with content, then we have an absolute right to timely information and an opportunity to provide our feedback on the changes contained in that information.

It's no longer a privilege to receive this kind of communication - we are the customers who will be keeping this game alive for the next year while SE cleans up their blunder, and we damn well better have promises made to us fulfilled at this point.

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Originally Posted by Ronik

If they expect us to pay for a game which is still largely broken and sparse with content, then we have an absolute right to timely information and an opportunity to provide our feedback on the changes contained in that information.

It's no longer a privilege to receive this kind of communication - we are the customers who will be keeping this game alive for the next year while SE cleans up their blunder, and we damn well better have promises made to us fulfilled at this point.

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Um, you have no right actually. Delays happen. It's also going to be a huge list of changes that are being translated for EVERY region the game supports and they want it all to go up at the same time instead of JP>NA>EU, etc.