PvP has gone majorly downhill since 2.1

There is no time to dps in high level feast matches unless the melee are basically afk. Getting a repose off in a high level match is a godsend, and much stronger than sticking clerlic'd aero 3 on someone. N'oeru is objectivley one of the best summoners on Primal, and he does get paired with or against our better healers sometimes. MCH has a move that can crit for like 9k during a 3s stun... Yes, as he said, people can solo great healers.

Back in 2.x, in the fold, you had no time to dps either, as the game mode was basically, "clobber the healer" back then. The only use cases I can see are either duels or front lines.

Duels arent meant to be serious, sure allow cleric stance, but if you allow it healers will be near unbeatable... Who cares though, duels are never balanced in any MMO. You can win now as a healer spinting around with Regen and int accessories, don't really need cleric, but yea duels should be fun, I could go either way here.

Front lines I can see having time to use cleric stance, but that's only because a majority of dps in this game have no idea how to play. If you took the best PvPers and put them on a front lines match, great healers would be having an insane time keeping up with the damaging going out.

You've eaten too many member berries imo

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Originally Posted by Sweetgrass

Yet, healers were rarely killed first. The best strat in 4v4 was to fool a healer about your real target, then kill before any healing/CC could be done, which depended a lot on your comp vs the enemy comp. Only at very low skill levels did everyone rushing healers actually work, because of things like Holy, Fluid Aura, Blizzard 2, etc


Not really. Healers are the most valuable roles on the team. Back in 2.1, you could actually lose to a smart healer if you were alone because of Cleric Stance. This skill floor has been COMPLETELY removed when they disabled Cleric Stance/damage interrupts, and PvP is less interesting because of it. The individual doesn't matter, like timing skills to counter other skills, just group up and press buttons.

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I cant agree more! so much this! In my opinion the dumbest move in pvp they ever made.

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Originally Posted by Sweetgrass

Stuff

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First of all, 2.1 was the worst iteration of PvP this game has ever had. You apparently were there, you should know how grossly unbalanced and mechanically broken it was. PvP could only improve from the massive shit show that was 2.1 PvP.

Your stance on PvP seems to be the want to have balance in 1v1 scenarios in a team based PvP game. The PvP in this game is balanced around team efforts, not which job is good at 1v1 duels thus making your train of thought flawed.

At this stage in the game, Cleric stance would find little use in the current meta of PvP being as though healers have very few spells to spare. If it were to be reintroduced into PvP, Assize would have to take a massive hit on that note. Pushback is not broken in the slightest, have you tried this rare technique where some bright players don't hit targets that have Pushback up? If you're so impatient to focus all of your attention on the meat shield, make sure to inform your healer you're about to take unnecessary damage.

Cast can still be interrupted, a certain threshold of damage has to be met to do so though. You have DRG and WAR leveled, you should know that Full thrust, Fell Cleave, empowered Jumps, heavy crits, or just normal burst is enough to interrupt a cast. God forbid healers are able to defend themselves from basic damage in a meta where dps have the power to wombo combo players in less than 2 GCDs.

WAR is not OP, believe it or not, dueling isn't this game's PvP focus. You suggest that they lose the ability to change stances lol??? That's probably the most ludicrous statement you've made and that's competing with your idea that 2.1 was in anyway an okay state for PvP. WAR has already been balanced by the VIT changes and damage bonus lost to tanks in PvP areas. WAR is also one of the easiest jobs to counter be it by CC'ing their berserk or just directly removing it all together. PLD's party defense would also like to say "Hi". You claim that WAR is the strongest job, but presumably have limited info on what other jobs have to offer. (You have DRG leveled, how can you make that allegation?) Have you seen BRD/MCH burst, MNK's powerful frequent burst (barely detectable), and the simple fact that all of the DPS have considerably higher sustainable damage than a WAR. The self healing is only relevant in certain cases where you actually become a target for once. These cases which should only occur when you have multiple stacks of vulnerability or when there are no longer any other non-tanks to engage.

I'm curious though, how much experience do you even have with current PvP to be making such outlandish statements?

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

First of all, 2.1 was the worst iteration of PvP this game has ever had. You apparently were there, you should know how grossly unbalanced and mechanically broken it was.

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Sounds like an opinion with no actual argument to back it up.

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

God forbid healers are able to defend themselves from basic damage in a meta where dps have the power to wombo combo players in less than 2 GCDs.

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...They could already do this in 2.1. The Lv 60 skills just make the playing field more interesting, rather than imbalanced.

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

WAR is not OP, believe it or not, dueling isn't this game's PvP focus. You suggest that they lose the ability to change stances lol???

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I've played WAR in PvP since 2.1 and it's never not been broken, reflect damage CDs, highest potency in the game under Berserk, a fast stun, Holmgang and the best selfhealing in the game. Not an argument.

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Originally Posted by Sweetgrass

Healers kept their entire team healed while dealing with chasers, and even killing people through DoTs/CC and a little team help. The system now is dumbed down and boring in comparison.

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The only competitive healer was SCH because you could stack a lot of VIT and have lustrate not be affected by the loss of MND, WHM could pull good results but past all their defensive cooldowns they were dead.

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Originally Posted by Sweetgrass

You must be playing with AWFUL healers if you can kill them 1v1, healers won 1v1s in 2.1, with fully interruptable casting, what they can do now is a joke.

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No, I just know what I'm doing, and many other people do. The only case where a healer can fully focus on trying to keep only themselves alive is in duel, in Feast if their attention is divided between themselves and their teamates (and in the case of some dps, even without that) you can kill experienced healers with a burst, solo. Just work on your stun timing.

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Originally Posted by Sweetgrass

WAR has been decried as OP for years now, starting with MRD, and even after that got nerfed, they're still the single strongest class in PvP. I don't know how you can argue this.

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I'm really not sure a PLD would lose to a WAR. Why would you claim WAR is the strongest job in pvp? Because nothing else other than a tank can kill them? Well that goes for all classes VS tanks. And healers can kill tanks.

My best pvp memories and best FFXIV memories in general come from Seal Rock which was a major pvp success, I know a few people on Exca share that feeling. I don't agree with all the changes they bring to pvp but it certainly hasen't gone downhill.

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Originally Posted by Sweetgrass

Sounds like an opinion with no actual argument to back it up.

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So 30/15/7s Sleeps, 20/10/5s Binds, 20/10/5s heavy and 24/12/6s disease (also was a heavy status) being stack-able, 50% healing reduction on storm's eye and disease (stackable) 3/2.5m cd on purify and could only be used on yourself, raise spell on a dps, broken mrd, moral, bunny hoping (avoiding melee attacks), the latency of out of instance areas, etc. were all balanced and completely fluid mechanics? LOL. Definitely opinion bro. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Sweetgrass

...They could already do this in 2.1. The Lv 60 skills just make the playing field more interesting, rather than imbalanced.

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There is no point to be had from this statement.

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Originally Posted by Sweetgrass

I've played WAR in PvP since 2.1 and it's never not been broken, reflect damage CDs, highest potency in the game under Berserk, a fast stun, Holmgang and the best selfhealing in the game. Not an argument.

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Do you even bother to read, or are you just too stubborn to realize that your simple-minded ideals are too far strung to make facts make sense? Still going on about reflect damage CDs as if there is some mechanic in the game that forces you to hit a certain target. Get over it already, only ill-minded individuals think reflect cds are broken, especially on a tank. Fell Cleave has 500 potency, and is on the GCD, yet Between the Eyes still hits harder than fell cleave with 450 potency and is damage on oGCD (Something WAR lacks in comparison to other jobs). Fast stun as a benefit, you obviously don't play other jobs, otherwise you'd know a fast stun isn't unique to WAR. I'm not going to go over self-healing with you again and holmgang doesn't somehow break WAR. The reason there isn't an argument is because you don't actually know anything about any other jobs, match outcomes, or team roles to make a valid statement in terms of balance.

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Originally Posted by NoelNoel

WHM could pull good results but past all their defensive cooldowns they were dead.

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What is Holy, Fluid Aura, and Repose.

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Originally Posted by NoelNoel

No, I just know what I'm doing, and many other people do. The only case where a healer can fully focus on trying to keep only themselves alive is in duel

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These two statements contradict each other. Healers could win 1v1s/hold off 1v2s or 1v3s with fully interruptable casting and Cleric Stance, lowering the skill floor into kiting and healing does not better PvP make.

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Originally Posted by NoelNoel

I'm really not sure a PLD would lose to a WAR.
And healers can kill tanks.

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This is mostly due to the uninterruptable casting. Another problem that has been introduced since 2.1 that no one asked for.

Sorry, I'm not going to reply to posts that just prove you didn't read any of my points to begin with anymore, it's really boring and disheartening to see from the OF.

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

So 30s Sleeps, 20s Binds, 50% healing reduction on storm's eye and disease (stackable), heavy and disease being stack-able, 2m cd on purify and could only be used on yourself, raise spell on a dps, broken mrd, moral, bunny hoping (avoiding melee attacks), the latency of out of instance areas, etc.

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This was all patched in the very same hotfix I mentioned a couple posts before.

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Originally Posted by Sweetgrass

Chaining Heavy through Miasma made SCH rough, yes, but was fixed quite early on by disabling the ability of Miasma 2 to cause Heavy.

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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...ba39b67875a7af
It's like you don't actually know the history of this game, let alone reading the posts of someone that does.

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Originally Posted by Sweetgrass

This was all patched in the very same hotfix I mentioned a couple posts before.


http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...ba39b67875a7af
It's like you don't actually know the history of this game, let alone reading the posts of someone that does.

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I know far too much about the history of the PvP in this game, which is why your post are so cringe worthy. I clearly listed the original state of PvP (2.1) in my first paragraph, you know the only one you bothered to skim over. The hotfix/patch you link still did not rectify even half of the things on my list, and that's not even the entire list. Everything after 2.1 has to be terrible in order for your topic to hold any weight.

"PvP has gone majorly downhill since 2.1"

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

I know far too much about the history of the PvP in this game

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Yet here you are, arguing basic semantics and unable to address any of my points aside from "this thing was broken for a short period of time so the entire mode is garbage" whining.

If anything, this is an interesting look at the caliber of the modern PvP playerbase.