Sch Feet question

There's no way Det is better than SS on Scholar. Det and SS essentially boost DoTs by the same amount, but SS ALSO decreases your GCD.

SS isn't only useful if the fight goes on long enough to fit in an entire GCD, but also helps in scoring the finishing blow.

Even if the fight doesn't go on long enough to add another whole GCD even if the spell speed person is half a GCD faster that means he has a 50% chance of finishing one more broil over the person without spell speed. Over time being able to finish that one last broil 50% more often will increase your damage by 50% of a GCD so even if a fight doesn't go on long enough to fit in an entire extra GCD SS will still statistically increase your DOT

This also applies to moving and escaping from AoEs. The higher your spell speed the higher chance that you'll be able to finish your current cast before you have to move vs someone without spell speed.

When a person with higher spell speed will be able to get off more Broils than the person without Spell speed because the person without SS will either have a higher chance of needing to interrupt his cast or have his last GCD be a Ruin II instead of a Broil because you don't have enough time to start and finish another cast spell speed is going to obliterate Det especially since so much of Scholar's kit is also boosted by spell speed with their large numbers of DoTs.

(And there's a good chance that SS affects DoTs more than DET. The number you linked was for Whms. For Smn Det only affects them by .0001238 [ https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/damag...er-mechanics/] )

Also you have to keep in mind other things such as the person with the higher Spell Speed will be able to Bane faster which is a pretty big deal especially with DPS happy groups that have the potential to kill a pack of mobs before your DoTs even expire.

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Originally Posted by Supersun

There's no way Det is better than SS on Scholar. Det and SS essentially boost DoTs by the same amount, but SS ALSO decreases your GCD.

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And DET also boosts your healing and damage power. Without stat weights we can't know which is objectively better. All we know is that both are worse than CRIT.

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Originally Posted by Supersun

SS isn't only useful if the fight goes on long enough to fit in an entire GCD, but also helps in scoring the finishing blow.

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Even in situations where SS helps you fit an extra GCD it may not be more powerful (since the -1 casts with crit / det may be more powerful than the +1 casts with spellspeed). Again, we don't know. As for the difference in casting speed, it is so minor that it's not credible for most of the players to play on a level where 150ms difference makes an actual difference in their playing. Same goes for movement.

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Originally Posted by Supersun

(And there's a good chance that SS affects DoTs more than DET. The number you linked was for Whms. For Smn Det only affects them by .0001238 [ https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/damag...er-mechanics/] )

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That's actually a good point I didn't consider, if the effect of DET on DoTs / HoTs is calculated differently for different jobs, although I'm not sure if that's really the case? Since it seems the effect of spellspeed / skillpeed on DoTs is the same (for skillspeed ((SS-354)/7722+1)) for all jobs? I'll try to find more info on this, I assumed they work the same for each job.

(Edit: Now I get it, even if it's calculated the same, placing it in the job's damage formula makes the weights different :) Monday brain... But yeah, since we don't know SCH statweights this seems to be another question left unanswered. For WHM DET boosts DoTs and HoTs more than SpS, at least, but it may be different for SCH and AST).

There's more to weights that just how the damage is calculated. Like, it's not like by essence of the formula that Crit is weighted high for Archer. It's not like they get 3x as much crit by point than everyone else, but because whenever their DoTs crit it resets their bloodletter timer.

The reason I highly suspect that SS is higher than Det for Sch is because they are already pretty close for Smn, but Smn has a crap ton of stuff that isn't affected by SS like Fester, Painflare, Deathflare, ect. While for Scholar the only thing that isn't affected by SS is Energy Drain, AND they have an additional DoT with Aero over Smn.

Presuming that Det scales the same for Smn and Sch just due to how Det would not as valuable to a Sch with a ton less oGCDs and SS will be more valuable with the extra DoT, and how they were already somewhat close for Smn I really doubt that Det would be better for Sch than SS.

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Originally Posted by Supersun

The reason I highly suspect that SS is higher than Det for Sch is because they are already pretty close for Smn, but Smn has a crap ton of stuff that isn't affected by SS like Fester, Painflare, Deathflare, ect. While for Scholar the only thing that isn't affected by SS is Energy Drain, AND they have an additional DoT with Aero over Smn.

Presuming that Det scales the same for Smn and Sch just due to how Det would not as valuable to a Sch with a ton less oGCDs and SS will be more valuable with the extra DoT, and how they were already somewhat close for Smn I really doubt that Det would be better for Sch than SS.

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Yeah, that makes sense. I just wish someone would do the testing. :)

I'll also point out a little remembered tidbit, that scholars get spell speed procs based on fairy crit rate, and the fairy inherits your crit chance.
(20% chance when pet crits to get 20% spell speed bonus). I'm fairly certain that most stat weights for sch and smn fail to take this into account. The more crit you have, the more often you'll get this proc, and the more speed you have, the more you'll get when it does. The more speed you have, the more useful speed becomes, but I don't like playing scholar that way.

Personally, I prioritize crit, and have 1.2k crit along with enough accuracy. This gives me roughly around 25% crit chance (usually a little higher), which I find far more useful for both healing and dpsing. While I don't prioritize my gear for personal dps, I'd estimate that its still pretty close to optimal, while the benefit of giving both healers time to keep their dots up is worth more than having more time to spam broil, and frequent crit adlo does just that. group dps is all that really matters anyway.

That said, if all you want is optimal dps from a scholar, mind is generally worth more than 6x any substat for raw dps.

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Originally Posted by Tashim

I'll also point out a little remembered tidbit, that scholars get spell speed procs based on fairy crit rate, and the fairy inherits your crit chance.

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Yes!! This is why Crit is so great on Scholar! Even if you don't get a Crit Adlo all the time, remember that we are indirectly casting a spell every 3 seconds. An Embrace Crit is pretty powerful, specially when it's Roused, and getting frequent Embrace crits means that you'll have more time to sit on Cleric because you're helping the main healer more if you're the off-healer. When you're the only healer, it usually means you get to stay in Cleric more anyways lmao.

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Originally Posted by Tashim

and the fairy inherits your crit chance.

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Well, your crit rate -.5%