Interpreting the Rising Poem

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenral

I'm going to say you have it backwards, and that the Ascians simply want to end all mortal life. There's nothing to indicate the Ascians give a single flying [kupo] about us, neither individually nor as a whole, so why give us immortality when, already, the only thing that can kill them is fighting us to accomplish their objective? Eldibus is not that noble, and Lahabrea certainly wasn't.[/SIZE]

---

I think the Ascians have the same plan as FFIX Garland and Zodiark is Hydaelyn's counterpart like Terra was Gaia's. They pretty much spend all their time starting wars and trying to wipe out every living thing. So long as Hydaelyn and it's inhabitants thrive Zodiark will never be more than a husk of it's former self. Hydaelyn took Zodiark's souls/life so they are justified in any and all means. Or something like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Now I have a question. Does Yoshi always intends the poems to be a sort of puzzle. Something that requires all four translations to fully understand?

---

They're always flowery prophecies with a lot of room open for interpretation but have some clues about where the story's heading. In terms of "requiring all four translations;" no. Nothing 'requires' all four translations, but if you want the clearest and most complete picture, you always want all four languages side by side. This holds true for just about everything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenral

I'm going to say you have it backwards, and that the Ascians simply want to end all mortal life.

---

Same thing, that's kinda what I meant. I'm not saying the Ascians want to make everyone immortal, I'm saying mortality is a error Hydaelyn created and they'd very much like to undo it to get back to the good old days... I'm sure I've explained this much better in the past, summer heat is not the best time for braining though... Hydaelyn created a cycle of death, thus facilitating life as we know it. Like you touched on, it perhaps explains why they can justify the Calamities/Rejoinings; "You're all going to die anyway, so why not die in a way that furthers our goals?"

Where it gets interesting is whether we're mortal or not... Since 2.2 it's seemed clear to me that the end point of the Echo (or at least a significant milestone in developing it) is immortality... I would expect Derplander to be here to go into that... They could be the Warriors of Light from Hydaelyn Dimension C-137, where sh*t hit the fan... Everyone died but them, and now Hydaelyn seems stupid while Elidibus seems compelling...

I'm certain I've likened this to Final Fantasy VIs ultimate plot in the past... Kefka went on a small rant about how stupid it is to live and rebuild, only knowing we'd die eventually... I expect something very similar out of Elidibus and Derplander... Not sure who'd give the cheesy "Death is OK because... Love!" rebuttal though... The cast we have all pretty much struggled with death at this point, but I'm not sure any have come to terms with it as a concept... They seem more likely to lean towards Elidibus' narrative IMO... I kind of hope they all do... Then we can have Garlemald steps in with "HERPDERP CONFLICT IS GREAT! MAKES US STRONGER! WE ACTUALLY LEARNED SOMETHING FROM THE ALLAGAN FALLING AND DON'T WANT TO LIVE FOREVER!", and then we nod with a meta "MMOs without conflict are boring!", and then Alphinaud is like "WTF is a MMO? Nevermind, you're right! If there was no conflict we'd never even have met Ysayle!", and then we friendship-punch Elidibus back to the moon...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alaltus

I think the Ascians have the same plan as FFIX Garland and Zodiark is Hydaelyn's counterpart like Terra was Gaia's. They pretty much spend all their time starting wars and trying to wipe out every living thing. So long as Hydaelyn and it's inhabitants thrive Zodiark will never be more than a husk of it's former self. Hydaelyn took Zodiark's souls/life so they are justified in any and all means. Or something like that.

---

That's... actually not dissimilar to my current hypothesis on the matter, which is that Zodiark (the moon) was once its own thriving world full of life and splendor until He became power-hungry and Hydaelyn banished Him.

Actually a bit supported by the ruined Zodiark statue up there and the Word of the Mother outright saying that Zodiark is the moon. Makes quite a bit of sense if you follow a certain logical pathway. (Hydaelyn = Goddess = Crystal = Celestial Body (Planet). Zodiark = [Dead] God = Crystal = [Dead] Celestial Body (Moon?). Yes, this is how I figured it out like a year and a half ago, long before Minfilia the Word of the Mother told us so.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Ever since that interview where it was said, "We had a debate - flying or swimming." I've been joking that since we have so much warning for swimming, there's ample time to include Blitzball. Now, the lead-up to 4.0 obviously wants us to think Gyr Abania is coming, and it likely is. But 3.0 had both Dravania and the Floating Continent; who's to say 4.0 won't have Gyr Abania and oceanic content? There are a few islands we know about (and many we possibly don't!). Thavnair, for starters. And what's with all these Final Fantasy X homages at Fan Fest? All things are coming up roses for that running joke, imho.

TL;DR
WE'RE GOING TO BUILD A BLITZBALL SPHERE, AND THAVNAIR IS GOING TO PAY FOR IT.

---

For the french version : "Au fin fond du cercle de la volonté", it should be "In the depth of the circle of volition"

Another hint about the water theme, is in one of the interview of Koji, he said that Bismarck could be seen in the ocean too...

----------

How did stories of Bismarck appear in both Vanu Vanu and Sea Wolf mythology? How old is this story?

KF: It’s very old. It goes back to what I was saying with Phoenix, there’s one seed and it spreads and there are some similarities but in some places it’s different. Some places he’s in the sky, some places he’s in the sea. He might show up again soon, someplace. Where it’s beautiful. And hand drawn. I’m not gonna say anything else. <pauses for a moment> They’re gonna kill me for that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ceasaria

For the french version : "Au fin fond du cercle de la volonté", it should be "In the depth of the circle of volition"

---

Thanks! I didn't want to stray too far from the "literal" interpretation without being sure.

Japanese is the vaguest f[kupo]ing language on the planet. It's great for writing poetry, but terrible for anyone who needs to get meaning back out without filling in unspecified details. Nonetheless, I went for a literal parsing of it:

Swirling ring of Will. What pools at it's base are dregs of grief.
Surging ring of Life. What rises to it's heavens are winds of prayer.
What binds the cycling spirals is thy crystal.
Piercing the stone, a spear of adamant. Cleaving the ocean, a blade of silver.

I went out of my way to preserve the sequence of ideas in the Japanese, but it's still basically the same as the English. All that really sticks out is that it's the spirals (rings?) themselves that are cycling (reincarnating?), as opposed to being a spiral of reincarnation. Something to do with the fundamentals behind the Astral <-> Umbral cycle, perhaps, but it doesn't take a degree to figure out that much.

The whole swirling, eddy, spiraling body of water reminds me a lot of the WoD artwork.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/a...3&d=1472270969

It seems like they're surrounding a spiral light source (Hydaelyn?) surrounded by darkness. In fact, it kinda reminds me of the spiral that forms when you drain water in a tub/sink. Underneath that swirl, could be The Mother Crystal?

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/p....png?861af3dv1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zeno_McDohl

Probably not? There's the 3rd Warring Triad, so a set of 2 doesn't make a ton of sense unless it was 3.

---

Zurvan represents time, I think. Maybe instead of being based on the twelve or heroic epics, the Warring Triad were allegory for the mothercrystals.

The German version also has clear connotations with water. While the translation of Grund as foundation is correct, I should mention that the word is most commonly used to talk about the bottom of a body of water (at least in my experience). Tosend und schäumend also have strong connections to water (to be precise: waterfalls). This points towards Lake Silvertear. If I recall correctly, it was said that we would find out more about them before the next expansion. Also, the he likely talks about the crystal(s of light? whatever crystal the poem was talking about earlier) and not about Zodiark. I am assuming this because no other version makes any sort of reference towards him. If anyone wonders why a "he" is mentioned: the german word for crystal is a masculine noun. Although this ambiguity could be intentional and imply that the crystals of light are pieces of Zodiark, I don't think that is likely (or true).