Could Provoke be a little bit Fell Cleave proof?

Can we stop asking for the game to be made easier all the time? I know tank swaps aren't hard, but your failure to communicate with your other tank is not a reason to change how the game works.

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Originally Posted by Paikis

Can we stop asking for the game to be made easier all the time? I know tank swaps aren't hard, but your failure to communicate with your other tank is not a reason to change how the game works.

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Fixing provoke to be a little bit smoother is hardly making the game easier.

Especially with the encounters being designed around this one ability, which can't be substituted.

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

Using even one BB combo during a triple FC zerk window is actually a DPS loss since by doing so, because of the 3 FCs, the Fracture, and the pacification, you'll drop the SE debuff before being able to re-apply it, which makes you lose 27 potency on the next SE while reducing at least one of your AA's damage, on top of reducing the damage from the other tank and your NIN if you have one, so it outweights the 20 potency gain from BB combo. There is no reason to use BB during a 3 FC zerk so this kind of tank swapping fail shouldn't even happen.

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This is an interesting point that I didn't consider when writing my post. That being said, I've never seen a tank swap fail on account of FC. The enmity that it generates on its own is minimal. Short of completely bungling the swap, the only possible culprit that I can think of is BB.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Fixing provoke to be a little bit smoother is hardly making the game easier.

Especially with the encounters being designed around this one ability, which can't be substituted.

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it is not Provoke that needs a fix tbh, it is either the Warrior who does Butchers' Block right after Tanks swapp which is silly (ofc u loose aggro there if he is not paying attention or simply does not care), or you are "not" using your Aggro Combo properly / you are not Tank swapping properly tbh.

It's is a mystery to me that u have problems holding Aggro after that, our PAL in our team has litereally no issues doing tank swapps and She is doing the excact same thing, nothing fancy.

Provoke -> Savage Blade -> Rage of halone.... You should have plenty of aggro while your Warrior is zerking the hell our of the Boss and throwing in Fell Cleaves.

Proper Communication is also importan, sure with randoms it wont work that well but with a set grp to raid you can communicate.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

This is an interesting point that I didn't consider when writing my post. That being said, I've never seen a tank swap fail on account of FC. The enmity that it generates on its own is minimal. Short of completely bungling the swap, the only possible culprit that I can think of is BB.

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Yeah BB can still screw tank swaps out of Zerk tho, if you voke during the long-ass animation of your WAR mate's BB, it will land right after your voke and you might lose aggro for a second just the time to land your own tank-stanced enmity combo finisher, but it shouldn't really be a problem if you prepare your combo beforehand. Most people who are having issues tank-swapping are either not preparing their enmity combo and just do stuff like voke -> hard slash or even worse stuff like voke -> unmend/tomahawk/lob even in melee range which is atrocious to watch (and I've really seen people do that), or have a terribad WAR who stays in Defiance while using BB even if he knows that a tank swap is coming instead of going Deliverance.

Many Warriors think that "Butchers Block" is a big DPS increas becaus they see the potency. In fact it is one of the s**tiest combo and causes more problems then usage when used wrong. but people just think "oh wow higher potency it has to be good"... they are so freaking wrong....

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Originally Posted by RamothElggur

Many Warriors think that "Butchers Block" is a big DPS increas becaus they see the potency. In fact it is one of the s**tiest combo and causes more problems then usage when used wrong. but people just think "oh wow higher potency it has to be good"... they are so freaking wrong....

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Well it is the best DPS combo and it doesn't cause any problems as long as you play properly (don't stand in Defiance when not tanking, and keep SE up). A DPSing WAR should use SE -> BB -> SE -> BB and only switch BB for SP if the 10% mitigation is needed (big raid damage).

Damage is still a factor. When our static's WAR got replaced with ~1300 DPS beast (245 weapon etc) i had some swap problems at first as my gear was pitiful at the time and DPS was around 600. T_T

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

Well it is the best DPS combo and it doesn't cause any problems as long as you play properly (don't stand in Defiance when not tanking, and keep SE up). A DPSing WAR should use SE -> BB -> SE -> BB and only switch BB for SP if the 10% mitigation is needed (big raid damage).

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Majority of the encounters in this game can be tanked in DPS stance and in all of those situations it's bad to use BB as OT because the MT will have trouble holding hate or lose potency because they have to use more hate combos themselves. BB should only be used while tanking, in my opinion. If the MT is in tank stance, you can afford to BB hate wise, but even then it might be more beneficial just to SP and have the MT in DPS stance. Your MT will lose 10% mitigation for no tank stance and gain ~20% more damage, while you lose ~2% personal DPS for not using BB.

In my book, the potency gains from BB are almost never worth it in the context of the whole party.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

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Yes, you're right, my point was just that it is the best DPS combo anyway, in terms of numbers. If you're OT and DPSing in Deliverance while your MT is in DPS stance too, you should watch the aggro gauge to see if you can afford using BB or not, but if your MT has a enough of an aggro lead you should use BB as long as you don't need SP debuff. It's very basic judgement calling. If you have a NIN it can also help the MT maintaining a solid aggro lead while in DPS stance, allowing you to use BB more than if you didn't have a NIN.