It must be sad to be playing with such a paranoid view of the game. Fact is, I've been playing MMOs for over ten years and I have never seen people kicked from a raid because they didn't have the perfect talent tree/ability selection/etc... as pre-decided by these mythical all knowing high end players.Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikMynhier
I'm not so certain. What I have observed in other games is that several different builds would rise to the top in popularity rather than just one. Granted, it all depends on which abilities would be in the cross class pool to choose from.Quote:
Uhm...so...instead of every physical DPS having B4B and Invigorate, every physical DPS would have Internal Release, Raging Strikes, B4B and Invigorate, with every NIN/MCH filling the final slot with Hawk's Eye and the rest filling the final slot with Straight Shot.
It's, uh...fairly predictable which skills people would cross class, if given the choice.
How so? Surely, it wouldn't be too difficult to run some simulations to determine the most likely increase in DPS, Healing, and Damage Mitigation and adjust the game accordingly? After all, we are talking a one time adjustment.Quote:
That is incredibly strenuous on the developer's end. Not only is it constant balance to keep this in check, especially with new jobs that come in the expansion, but each fight and the fights before need to take into account that people can cross any ability they want onto their job.
But we aren't playing Perfect World! Sorry, a little joke. hee heeQuote:
In a perfect world, it would be a good idea,
That's an interesting idea. Certainly, it would be nice to have all your necessary abilities up front. If Square Enix goes this route, how do feel it would impact the current system where a player has to level up two classes to open a job?Quote:
I'm of the opposite opinion OP, I'd rather see them scrap the cross class system entirely and start pruning abilities. Give the jobs the one or two necessary abilities (such as giving all tanks a provoke move) as a baseline and scrap the cross class system.
Tell me about it. Personally, I don't give a goblin's fig what the upper 2% of the raiding community are doing. I rather have fun even if it takes me longer to get to Heavensward and beyond. For me, it's always been about journey, the friends I meet along the way, and how we accomplished our dreams together. Somehow, I never bothered to pick up the high end raiders approval slip of what I was doing.Quote:
And those are the people that kill any kind of fun in gaming in general...
Peace, love, and strawberry lemonade,
-Kacho
Let's Get Rid of Cross Class Ability Restrictions
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07-07-2016, 06:02 AMKacho_Nacho
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07-07-2016, 06:09 AMVelhartDo you know how balancing works on the development side? They don't just hit a button and everything balances itself out. On the system they have right now they have enough problems balancing that. DRK, MCH, and especially AST while also including other jobs that went from 50 > 60 was quite an ordeal to get to a decent balance. BRD and MCH casting stance was pretty much broken. With how much they deal with now, you want a system like this put on top of it? Like I said, it causes more problems than solves. There is such an array of sub abilities that just one thing not properly looked into can break the balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho
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07-07-2016, 06:11 AMDerio
No, no and no. Would cause them to spend unnecessary resources on balancing dps. When those resources can be used for other important things.
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07-07-2016, 07:00 AMKhalitharI never liked that system in the first place honestly, especially if it involves leveling something you don't want to play. To unlock paladin for example, I had to level conjurer to 15, I didn't mind it so much, but I rolled gladiator to tank, if I wanted to level a healer it should be because I wanted to try it out, not because I had to heal because I wanted to tank. Same thing with dragoon, to get mercy stroke I have to level marauder to 26 (I think, it's been a while), if I rolled lancer to be a melee dps, why should I have to level a tank? The jobs are so strong that you really need to unlock them to do your role properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho
I like the idea of your class evolving in to something stronger though, so that end, if they scrap the cross class system (as I hope) I want to see all the classes turn in to their respective jobs at 30 once you complete the pre-requisite class quests without the need to level the sub class at all. -
07-07-2016, 08:39 AMWinterLuna
ErikMynhier is right, whether it's a paranoid opinion or not. Eventually there would be a couple of specific abilities for each class causing players to only be hindering themselves if they didn't use them. I can see your thought process but it's not such a good idea in the long run.
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07-07-2016, 09:13 AMAlaltus
Don't give us any choices to make, halone knows the common denominator can't handle any kind of multiple choice.
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07-07-2016, 09:13 AMTankHunter678
Every DPS would use the same cross-class abilities, and every tank/healer would be grabbing DPS cross-class abilities.
Imagine a Scholar with a B4B+Raging Strikes+Internal Release Adlo crit. Off-tank WAR using B4B+Raging Strikes+Internal Release+Straight Shot.
You would have to gut every DPS cross-class skill basically to make the non-dps cross-class skills be actually worth something. -
07-07-2016, 09:15 AMzonderbunnyMmmmm strawberry lemonade....ohh yes discussion. I like the thing I think is fun and anybody that doesn't agree is a troll of inferior intellect and the product of dubious parentage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho
For seriousness though more cross class options might be nice. I know my sis dropped dragoon for lancer for one single-player instance for skills she wouldn't otherwise get to help her clear it. -
07-07-2016, 09:22 AMbass9020
People already complain about lvling classes (which takes no time at all.) and some refuse to get cross class abilities already. I would love being able to use more abilities but Yoshi and team seem to side with the people who only want to lvl one job and thats it.
In 1.0 (before yoshi and jobs) we were able to cross class any abilities/spells on any class and were able to sorta make our own version of things. It was fun and no one really complained about lvling other classes. A lot of 1.0 was unbalanced but being able to have the freedom of the cross class system was great. But the way content is designed now compared to 1.0 its probably more work than what they want to do. I would personally love it though -
07-07-2016, 10:06 AMKacho_NachoStrawberry lemonade rocks! I love to tear up a sprig's worth of fresh basil leaves and toss it into full pitcher and let the whole thing chill for an hour. The taste combination is indescribably good. Try it! You'll be hooked.Quote:
Originally Posted by zonderbunny
As far as folks who don't agree with us about the cross class skills.... no need to insult them (even jokingly). They have brought up good points against the idea. I just believe that the flexibility gained will be a boon to the game. The thing is much of the balance issue objections are about cooldowns which are already limited by being allowed only once in awhile whereas I'm thinking there are low level spells which could enhance the gameplay of a class. For example, a rogue with Blizzard II.
Anyways... I'm curious to read what other folk have to say, for or against the idea.