People are Quitting Too Easily on Extremes

I think how FF14 and a lot of other games handle dungeon bosses is to blame for this. In a lot of Extreme trials and in end game dungeons, there's just too many instant death conditions. Nearly every phase of a boss in a dungeon has some type of instant raid wipe ability and Extreme has several more instant wipe conditions placed on top of the ones that were already there for the normal and hard ones.

I get frustrated too because there's basically arbitrary time limits on every boss and when I was first doing Alexander raids, my group constantly came close to wiping because of this.

It's not really a problem the way you think it is. Some people are just bad

If I join a learning party for example. I'll stick it out the longest. But if we're hitting a wall making no progress after 4-5 times wiping, I'm not sticking around to waste my time. I want to see consistent progression. Even if it's a little bit at a time.

If it's a down party, I expect everyone to know the whole fight with the exception of all or some of the final phase. So if DPS X keeps dying to mechanic Y in the first two phases, that means to me he's lying and looking for a carry.

If it's farm party, I expect everyone to know the whole fight, but you very often see two things in farm parties. 1) Someone with a bonus looking for a carry. 2) Someone who got carried their first kill and are now an "expert." I normally will see 2-3 pulls in these and then leave. Again, the problem isn't ppl raging. It's lack of integrity forcing ppl to rage

I have been joining Nidhogg Ex kill/last phase parties for two weeks now. I clocked a lot of hours in there - without a single clear. Were I not fortunate enough to clear it with my FC I would seriously despair by now.

Ragnarok's Party Finder is mess.

The comment says "training last phase, aiming to kill" - Two people die in the phase 1. Alright, maybe bad luck. Second time it happens again... yep, those people certainly have enough experience with the fight.

When the PF says "Training last phase" you expect to train the last phase, not phase 1, not phase 2, the last phase. But most of the time the group does not even get there. That is a problem. People can't be trusted and it creates a wave of frustration.

One or two players who lie about their progression, or do not realize how good they are with the previous phases, are enough to doom the rest of the party to fail.

Eventually these players learn the early phases in incorrect parties, but guess what happens? There are new players trying to cheat their way out of the bonus and the circle repeats.

Players just can't understand that by cheating the system it will take much longer to clear stuff while it is making PF frustrating experience.

This is the essence of the game. Most players have realised it by now or begin to realise...

If you want to have a kill on extreme primals or savage content find a static group. You will all practice on the fight w/o ragequits etc. and most important thing is you will have fun and damn it people, communication!. Back in 2.1 with titan hard, if someone happen to die in bombs and mostly in plumes BooM!! ragequits, flame etc. From my experience so far it goes like this:

% of getting a kill through DF -> 5-10%
PF (kill group) -> 30-50%
Static -> over 9000!

This issue is particularly bad in Nidhogg, and not only in the EX version. Last night I did Nidhogg NM in Trial Roulette, and after one wipe (both healers died to Cauterize) three people instantly left. I was like, really? Is this what DF is now

As for the EX, I will agree that one can usually spot fairly early on if a party is going to be at all successful or simply wipe to really simple mechanics. People failing to spot Nidhogg and move out of Cauterize accordingly is not okay if you're attempting an EX fight, and if one continues to do so after being told how to handle it, I would probably vote abandon after a few goes as well (though certainly not after just one or two wipes).

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Originally Posted by Archaell

I have been joining Nidhogg Ex kill/last phase parties for two weeks now. I clocked a lot of hours in there - without a single clear. Were I not fortunate enough to clear it with my FC I would seriously despair by now.

Ragnarok's Party Finder is mess.

The comment says "training last phase, aiming to kill" - Two people die in the phase 1. Alright, maybe bad luck. Second time it happens again... yep, those people certainly have enough experience with the fight.

When the PF says "Training last phase" you expect to train the last phase, not phase 1, not phase 2, the last phase. But most of the time the group does not even get there. That is a problem. People can't be trusted and it creates a wave of frustration.

One or two players who lie about their progression, or do not realize how good they are with the previous phases, are enough to doom the rest of the party to fail.

Eventually these players learn the early phases in incorrect parties, but guess what happens? There are new players trying to cheat their way out of the bonus and the circle repeats.

Players just can't understand that by cheating the system it will take much longer to clear stuff while it is making PF frustrating experience.

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Rag always has been a mess, most grp's are established already due to it being legacy and all. Statics are hard to find, or breakup even before they start.

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Originally Posted by Faeon

Rag always has been a mess, most grp's are established already due to it being legacy and all. Statics are hard to find, or breakup even before they start.

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So far I had two statics for A5S - both disbanded before even entering the fight. >_> So I can relate to that part. People just don't show up. I gave up on randoms for the time being due to it. Fortunately it seems our FC could have enough members for the second FC static which shows much better promise.

Ragnarok's PF might be mess, but it could be theoretically fixed if the players started to be at least a little bit honest about their progression... I don't think they are that dumb to think that lies could give them clears faster.

Here is my take on this :
1. fresh learning groups.. expect anything bad to happen. Unprepared players, DPS low, etc. And that's fine for me... i can suck it up.
2. Join a mid-prog group... this is where i got a problem. People lie and pretend they are on that progression.

I say problem is not the fights... Problem is Se not giving proper tools for the players to be able to recruit others that are on same prog.

Tired of joining Nid ex in a suppose "last phase" prog, when 1/5 of the times we can't reach that phase.

I am not about to ask questions, interview style, to all 7 members and make sure they know some phases.

Give us a tool darn it ! I suggest give the % of HP left of the boss in that fight you had your best stat. Shows it next to your name in PF. Not a perfect tool, has it's flaws, but will help. " ... < 25% prog only".

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Originally Posted by ZaaZaa

Here is my take on this :
.. I suggest give the % of HP left of the boss in that fight you had your best stat. Shows it next to your name in PF. Not a perfect tool, has it's flaws, but will help. " ... < 25% prog only".

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I mean, sure you can always have people pay for a crarry, then come back in PF because they didn't get their wep. But that will surely be obvious of his incompetence and be easy to vote-kick that said player. Instead of having to disband and re-form a failed group filled with liars.

Nid ex : You can have 1 or 2 liars.. enough to wipe the group. I had a healer keep dying in first phase of Nid ex.. was a last phase prog ! Tank didn't know the swap... in a last phase prog (on adds mind you)... Then you get blue players getting hurt because red team don't soak the DMG... in fang/claw... in a last phase prog...

I don't even try extremes and if I get new steps of faith in roulette, I quit and wait out the timer. Not putting myself through them in pugs with mean people period.